Destiny

[DonkeyJote]

Re: Destiny

For the record, I'm not suggesting Warlocks intentionally die. If you jump over the shade or even run right him and melee him, you're more likely than not to survive. It's more about taking the chance so that no one else has to, than full on sacrificing yourself.

And, so we're clear, in the instance I was referring to, I didn't die. I wasn't even in the shade yet. Our only Hunter died immediately upon entering the shade. I was actually running as a Warlock, and doing this whenever I went in.

Posted something on reddit and the consensus so far seems to be that the Warlock should be jumping at the Shade. Exceptions had the Warlock saving their rez to stay behind to kill the 4th knight (I actually like that idea) or popping it after staggering Oryx to make orbs. Only seen 1 guy say Warlocks hold onto their super on platforms, and he says his group tends to kill Oryx at or before the 4th person getting pulled in, so you're not really dealing with the charge much there.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[kingkilla56]

Destiny

Things I hate in crucible:

Shotguns. Bungie should pull a Gears of War 2 and add a stopping power rating to guns. If a guy is mindlessly sprinting around the map blink snipe shotgun lagging, he should be slowed if being pelted by bullets. A guy running full speed max armor has nothing to fear just running around overwhelming everybody in every game mode.

If these guys are slowed when being hit head on by their target, they'd think twice about being lame

Oh and shoulder charge. What a crock that is. There is no actual trade off when equipping this crutch perk.

[Burns11]

Re: Destiny

For the record, I'm not suggesting Warlocks intentionally die. If you jump over the shade or even run right him and melee him, you're more likely than not to survive. It's more about taking the chance so that no one else has to, than full on sacrificing yourself.

And, so we're clear, in the instance I was referring to, I didn't die. I wasn't even in the shade yet. Our only Hunter died immediately upon entering the shade. I was actually running as a Warlock, and doing this whenever I went in.

Posted something on reddit and the consensus so far seems to be that the Warlock should be jumping at the Shade. Exceptions had the Warlock saving their rez to stay behind to kill the 4th knight (I actually like that idea) or popping it after staggering Oryx to make orbs. Only seen 1 guy say Warlocks hold onto their super on platforms, and he says his group tends to kill Oryx at or before the 4th person getting pulled in, so you're not really dealing with the charge much there.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

You still don't get it, it's not about if running at the shade with a warlock is viable or not, it's the attitude that it is necessary and that if a warlock doesn't do it the shade is so hard it will wipe. We do Oryx a lot, and the shade is never a big deal*. That run wasn't ruined by the warlock who didn't agree with your methods, it was ruined by the hunter who couldn't handle his **** in the shade. Put the blame where the blame belongs.

I still say I would much prefer a guy on a plate have self rez, there is way too much out there that can instagib you where the shade is simple and a known quantity. The shade can't surprise you, it can't hit you out of nowhere, it can't blast you from existence before it is even fully spawned. It comes in, you dodge, it dies. Easey peasey.

* The only time the shade was a problem was the very beginning of NM when we really didn't know what we were doing, and the first maybe two weeks or so of HM when we were all sub 310 with very few of us even approaching having a 310 heavy. Those days killing the shade was an issue, but then again I don't really PUG anymore (though we have had to pick up one or two because of disinterest and the holiday vacations).

[DonkeyJote]

Re: Destiny

That hunter literally got instakilled by the Shade upon going in. Tell me you haven't seen that happen, a lot (or he gets a glancing blow and launches you into the wall). Personally, I rarely see people have problem on plates. If you're still on it when the ship comes, you're doing it wrong; even the guy on the 3rd plate should be well clear unless the guys in the middle are having trouble clearing ogres. Acolyte eyes are pretty easily dealt with by, by shooting them when they spawn, or positioning yourself in the back of your plate. In any situation in this game, having the attitude that you are going to hold onto your super in case you personally have trouble I believe is just a terrible, selfish way to play. It's like a Titan refusing to use their bubble unless they're getting shot at and need protection. Or a hunter saving their super for when they get cornered.

It's also a matter of being in a PUG. There are certain SOPs that you go by in LFG groups unless it's otherwise stated. Since in this group, we had 4 (4!) warlocks, and I had said, more than once, that one of them should jump at/over the shade, and no one said anything to the contrary, it was still very annoying to see the 1 hunter in there go down. If you are in a group that doesn't do it, fine. But when you are in a PUG, just do it. You wouldn't take the aura to a back plate on daughters, you don't take Golgoroth's gaze to turn him for the actual gaze holder, etc. It's not that those things don't work, it's that if you aren't doing what's expected, it causes wipes. And what's typically expected of Warlocks in a PUG is that they jump at or over the shade. That's not my startegy; it's seriously the normal pattern of thought in PUGs. 90% of Warlocks I've played with do just that.

My attitude is certainly not that it's too hard that it will be a wipe. It's that as a self-rez warlock, I think it's selfish playing to just hoard your super; the role of the Sunsinger should be to play more aggressively to take the away the chances from other players that can't rez, like getting the farthest bomb when running "no-knight".

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Burns11]

Re: Destiny

How is it selfish if a plate guy dies he has rez to keep the group from wiping? If that guy had burned his super there, then died because of some crap on the plate, you'd be bitching about how he died.

Selfish is laying the blame on someone else if someone dies. There's no guarantee that if that warlock had run up that the hunter wouldn't have been teleported in on a swipe. That's just bad Destiny luck.

As for this being some PUG normality, past month between people being on vacation, Christmas break, and people just losing interest we've grabbed 1 or 2 randos just about every run we've had and not one has ever mentioned/demanded this (and I can't remember one person dying in the shade).

[DonkeyJote]

Re: Destiny

How is it selfish if a plate guy dies he has rez to keep the group from wiping? If that guy had burned his super there, then died because of some crap on the plate, you'd be bitching about how he died.

Selfish is laying the blame on someone else if someone dies. There's no guarantee that if that warlock had run up that the hunter wouldn't have been teleported in on a swipe. That's just bad Destiny luck.

As for this being some PUG normality, past month between people being on vacation, Christmas break, and people just losing interest we've grabbed 1 or 2 randos just about every run we've had and not one has ever mentioned/demanded this (and I can't remember one person dying in the shade).

Actually there is that guarantee. If you run up, he doesn't slam in the middle where people teleport in.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Burns11]

Re: Destiny

A guarantee in Destiny, that's rich.

Since we are going to avoid the crux of the argument, how about this.. If you wouldn't have rushed the shade, died, blown your super, and wound up outside the shade might have been dead before that second swipe that killed the hunter. So it was really all your fault, right?

Or how about we blame the randomness of Destiny, We laugh, make some inside joke, everybody laughs, we do it next round. Or not, who gives a ****, we are having fun, and if it stops being fun we stop for the night and regroup later because we are just tired anyway. Regardless it's fun, take responsibility when you die/fall off the plate like a *******/miss a jump/go out of order/whatever *******ery you did to cause a wipe, don't blame someone else if something goes wrong, and everybody has a good time. That's how you end up with too many people and not enough raid runs.

[KingTocco]

Re: Destiny

"Topper" will forever live on in my memory of the oryx fight


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DonkeyJote]

Re: Destiny

A guarantee in Destiny, that's rich.

Since we are going to avoid the crux of the argument, how about this.. If you wouldn't have rushed the shade, died, blown your super, and wound up outside the shade might have been dead before that second swipe that killed the hunter. So it was really all your fault, right?

Or how about we blame the randomness of Destiny, We laugh, make some inside joke, everybody laughs, we do it next round. Or not, who gives a ****, we are having fun, and if it stops being fun we stop for the night and regroup later because we are just tired anyway. Regardless it's fun, take responsibility when you die/fall off the plate like a *******/miss a jump/go out of order/whatever *******ery you did to cause a wipe, don't blame someone else if something goes wrong, and everybody has a good time. That's how you end up with too many people and not enough raid runs.

I never got in during that phase. I was still on the outside killing adds. And when I say charge the shade, it isn't necessarily death and super use; it's taking a chance of that happening to reduce the chance of other people dying. I have no problem taking blame when I die. Hell, even if a Warlock isn't helping out in there, I'll still take the blame as I expect to be able to get away anyway.

It's selfish, because your attitude is essentially "they should just get out of the way", but if something were to happen and you die on a platform, suddenly it's not your fault because you didn't have your super? It works both ways.

But hey, do whatever you want. And on bosses, don't pop a bubble when you're dpsing, in case you personally need it on the way out. And don't worry about making orbs for anybody. Your super is there to save your own ***, not to help out the whole team.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Burns11]

Re: Destiny

Oh, ouch, an insult.

BTW, next time you want to pull out an insult, try not to just lift it from a guy on reddit who got downvoted.

It is also mind boggling how, even after being told you were arguing the wrong thing, you still argue the thing. So I'll say it for the millionth time. The problem isn't the strategy, it's you laying the blame on someone that didn't die, for someone else's death. It was either: a) a fluke (AKA Destiny being Destiny), B) the fault of the Hunter, or C) the fault of the person running the group for not explaining the strategy. After the fact, it's not this guy's fault for following whatever plan you have that wasn't communicated, and if he refuses to follow the plan you get rid of him and grab someone else. Ergo, it's not a warlock's innate duty to protect everyone else in the shade.

I can't believe this has gone on for so long, I need to stop clicking "view post"

[DonkeyJote]

Re: Destiny

Where did I "insult" you? Like, seriosuly? I certainly didn't type anything as an insult, and honestly have no idea what reddit post you are referring to.

I stand by it being a Warlock's "innate" ability. I've asked the last few days, on reddit, in game, and it is absolutely the consensus from those I've talked to. I also don't recall ever saying that hunter is absolved from blame. In fact, I said that when it happens to me, I still accept blame (as it did today on my hunter) as I should still be jumping out of the way. I also had said it several times in this raid; in fact I said something along the lines of "make sure one of you Warlocks jumps over the shade" right before dude tried.

The point of the original post was more along the lines of "this is what you are expected to do in most groups". Obviously your regular group may be different. But go look on the forums or reddit. It is totally what the majority of groups expect of warlocks.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Burns11]

Re: Destiny

But hey, do whatever you want. And on bosses, don't pop a bubble when you're dpsing, in case you personally need it on the way out. And don't worry about making orbs for anybody. Your super is there to save your own ***, not to help out the whole team.

That's totally not trying to extrapolate me into a selfish *******. Nope. And it's totally not pretty much what this guy posted, only reworded to make it more insulting/hostile.

I've asked the last few days, on reddit, in game, and it is absolutely the consensus from those I've talked to.

Unfortunately, it wasn't the consensus of your PUG though, seems three out of four warlocks in that group weren't on that "rush the shade" page.

[DonkeyJote]

Re: Destiny

Well, sorry you took that as insulting. There's a difference to me between insulting someone, and saying an action is selfish, but I'm any case, I apologize for the tone.

As far as swiping it from reddit, I had actually made the bubble post in here before today as well. I did notice in that thread that the majority of the responses were in favor of doing what I've been describing. Having the Warlock charge the shade to get him to slam.

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[fishepa]

Re: Destiny

I finally did the Oryx challenge last night with a PUG for the first time. Took us about 4 wipes but we did. I was the Titan, my job was easy LOL.

[LionsFanNJ]

Re: Destiny

I'm kinda pissed as my pug this morning FORGOT WHAT CYCLE WE WERE ON. We missed a knight and needed 5...we were on 5 and didn't blow them. Hello enrage and death

Sent from my VS880 using Tapatalk