The Order: 1886

[CaptainZombie]

Re: The Order: 1886

It being setup for DLC or another game is indefensible. It's indefensible when any game does it.

It's just doubly bad here when the gameplay is also so lackluster.

This is not the first or last time that you have criticized games with an agenda here on OS. We've been here long enough to know what the problem is. The Order is not perfect by any means and has some issues, but if people are enjoying the game, let them enjoy it. Why do you and a few others have to keep going into attack/defense mode over this game/story? Just say your piece and move on, but instead of doing that (even after you trade this in) you are going to sit in this thread and campaign the whole time that this game sucks.

Are you expecting Oscar material from your games, especially a first time effort on the PS4 by RAD with a game of this size? If they do not learn from their mistakes with a possible sequel, then that is on them.

[authentic]

Re: The Order: 1886

I'm not trying to rattle anyone's cages. I've gone to great lengths to explain in detail my problems with both the story and the gameplay, but nobody has really tried to argue the other side of it.

I've explained why I think it's bad. How about you explain why you think it's good. Let's...discuss it.

For example, how did you feel about

Spoiler

how they handled Isi? She seemed like a pretty important character that has maybe 1 line in the last half of the game. Were you satisfied with what the story did with her?

or how do you explain

Spoiler

Why Galahad wouldn't expose what was going on with Hastings instead of killing Lucen and walking away? How does that serve his character? What does it say about him as a character? Why isn't the big plot to infect large cities in the US more important than protecting The Order?

and what did you think of

Spoiler

the stealth sections? Are they as bad as I think they are? Why or why not? What'd you think about the way the timing takedowns worked? Did you run into any issues with guards throwing that timing off? Is it something you'd like to see in future games? Why or why not?

did you think the game could have

Spoiler

handled the Lycan and half-breed encounters better, or were they just right for you? Did the final encounter feel anticlimactic, or no? Why or why not? Do you think the aspect ratio made the lycan fights harder? Did it make them fun? Why or why not?

Spoiler

Isi was handled okay. I felt like her main part of the story was showing how important the order truly was to the knights. She obviously had a relationship with Galahad before he was turned on. I believe that if there is DLC or a second game, they will definitely expand on what happens with Isi and Galahad. Galahad choosing to protect The Order is simply because he gave an oath to protect the order. It shows that he has integrity even though he most definitely would love to expose them. The stealth sections aren't a part of the game that I would say are it's strong point, but it's not meant to be. The ending was intense just because it was the final stand and on hard difficulty, it was kind of a pain to beat. I play on a 120" projector so aspect ration doesn't effect me too much.

[mrprice33]

Re: The Order: 1886

This is not the first or last time that you have criticized games with an agenda here on OS. We've been here long enough to know what the problem is. The Order is not perfect by any means and has some issues, but if people are enjoying the game, let them enjoy it. Why do you and a few others have to keep going into attack/defense mode over this game/story? Just say your piece and move on, but instead of doing that (even after you trade this in) you are going to sit in this thread and campaign the whole time that this game sucks.

Are you expecting Oscar material from your games, especially a first time effort on the PS4 by RAD with a game of this size? If they do not learn from their mistakes with a possible sequel, then that is on them.

What are you talking about? Outside of posting in this thread and once in the Alien Isolation thread, I haven't been to this part of the forums since 2014, when I posted something positive about Forza Horizon 2. Check my post history.

It's good to think critically about games, even ones you like. I thought Alien Isolation was the best game I played last year, but it had problems...huge problems. The ending was atrocious, it was overlong and had multiple false endings, and there were places where it was totally random and unfair. I could go into the same exacting detail about what I didn't like in my favorite game of 2014 as I can about The Order. If you don't want to engage critically with what you play, that's fine, but this is a pretty senseless attack in response to some pretty mild posting on my part.

[mrprice33]

Re: The Order: 1886

Spoiler

Isi was handled okay. I felt like her main part of the story was showing how important the order truly was to the knights. She obviously had a relationship with Galahad before he was turned on. I believe that if there is DLC or a second game, they will definitely expand on what happens with Isi and Galahad. Galahad choosing to protect The Order is simply because he gave an oath to protect the order. It shows that he has integrity even though he most definitely would love to expose them. The stealth sections aren't a part of the game that I would say are it's strong point, but it's not meant to be. The ending was intense just because it was the final stand and on hard difficulty, it was kind of a pain to beat. I play on a 120" projector so aspect ration doesn't effect me too much.

Spoiler

See I thought Isi and Lafayette were the best characters in the game, so I was very disappointed to see them pushed aside in favor of Lucen, a character that the writing never really established as having much importance. I said in another spoiler tag that they should have switched Lucen and Perceval's roles when it comes to that part of the story. They could have killed off Lucen at the airship, which would have then given Isi much more motivation (instead, she comes off as a sort of jilted lover) and having Perceval be the traitor would have given Galahad much more conflict when it came to whether or not to reveal the conspiracy. As it stood, it felt empty to me because we are never shown a connection between Galahad and Lucen. I didn't sense any real sadness on Galahad's part nor did I feel any myself, because Lucen was just this dude. He was far more important to Isi than he was to Galahad.

As to the stealth sections, I don't see how you can prescribe that kind of intent to RaD. Obviously they thought the stealth sections were pretty important, since they doubled back on it a second time near the end of the game. And, I get the impression from the game's length and pacing that a lot of things were cut out. Leaving in the stealth makes me wonder what they thought was worse.

Also, who the hell was the old man Perceval was meeting with? Was it the rebel leader in disguise? Did Perceval know what was going on? Why was that just swept aside after he died? To me, a good ending to the game would have at least referenced that. I can't assume what is going to be in a sequel or DLC that hasn't been announced yet, so I can only accept the story for what it is. These things are issues IMO.

[daniel77733]

Re: The Order: 1886

FYI Best Buy trade-in already down to $32, but currently running a +30% trade-in promotion that brings it up to $41 and change.

$41.60 to be exact, $44.80 if you're a GCU member since you get the extra 10% which would be $3.20 added to the $41.60. Overall, 80 cents better than the $40/$44 GCU total but less points, 64 as opposed to 80. Every 50 points equals $1. Either way, im trading it in with Unity come Friday. Getting closer and closer to my Xbox One, woohoo!!! Not a fanboy either way, simply want to own both consoles already.

[WaddupCouzin]

Re: The Order: 1886

MrPrice33:

Its not the fact of you giving your thoughts/opinion, Dude you've been saying the same thing for the past 10 pages! We got it. It's a short, flawed game, We. Got. It. I feel like the scene in Copland with Deniro and Sylvester Stallone, "We gave you a chance to be a real cop and YOU BLEEEEEW IT! WE GOOOOOT IT!

[I_Am_Honeybadger]

Re: The Order: 1886

I need to throw out a big **** you to the developers for making the part where you need to find tesla's lab so unbelievably difficult. I'm playing on medium, and there is absolutely no way to get past the room full of enemies. I have tried 35 times. The game is over for me.

How else could they increase the play time of the game?

[thaSLAB]

Re: The Order: 1886

Here's a good review on the game that makes a good argument for both ends of the spectrum:

Review: Something’s Amiss in THE ORDER: 1886 « Nerdist

http://www.nerdist.com/2015/02/review-somethings-amiss-in-the-order-1886/

It pretty much says what has been said in this thread. Funny that he starts out with "if you're on the fence" because I definitely don't think this review will push you either way. That neutrality is actually a good thing, IMO.

htcONE [M8] 5.0 | Tapatalk

[mrprice33]

Re: The Order: 1886

MrPrice33:

Its not the fact of you giving your thoughts/opinion, Dude you've been saying the same thing for the past 10 pages! We got it. It's a short, flawed game, We. Got. It. I feel like the scene in Copland with Deniro and Sylvester Stallone, "We gave you a chance to be a real cop and YOU BLEEEEEW IT! WE GOOOOOT IT!

If you disagree feel free to engage and discuss why.

[fishepa]

Re: The Order: 1886

FYI Best Buy trade-in already down to $32, but currently running a +30% trade-in promotion that brings it up to $41 and change.

How long does this promotion last?

[42]

Re: The Order: 1886

How long does this promotion last?

Ends Sunday.

[daniel77733]

Re: The Order: 1886

Spoiler

See I thought Isi and Lafayette were the best characters in the game, so I was very disappointed to see them pushed aside in favor of Lucen, a character that the writing never really established as having much importance. I said in another spoiler tag that they should have switched Lucen and Perceval's roles when it comes to that part of the story. They could have killed off Lucen at the airship, which would have then given Isi much more motivation (instead, she comes off as a sort of jilted lover) and having Perceval be the traitor would have given Galahad much more conflict when it came to whether or not to reveal the conspiracy. As it stood, it felt empty to me because we are never shown a connection between Galahad and Lucen. I didn't sense any real sadness on Galahad's part nor did I feel any myself, because Lucen was just this dude. He was far more important to Isi than he was to Galahad.

As to the stealth sections, I don't see how you can prescribe that kind of intent to RaD. Obviously they thought the stealth sections were pretty important, since they doubled back on it a second time near the end of the game. And, I get the impression from the game's length and pacing that a lot of things were cut out. Leaving in the stealth makes me wonder what they thought was worse.

Also, who the hell was the old man Perceval was meeting with? Was it the rebel leader in disguise? Did Perceval know what was going on? Why was that just swept aside after he died? To me, a good ending to the game would have at least referenced that. I can't assume what is going to be in a sequel or DLC that hasn't been announced yet, so I can only accept the story for what it is. These things are issues IMO.

Spoiler

Isi was okay to me. Liked the Lafayette character. Don't think that either were the best characters. Galahad is easily the best character in my opinion. Lucen being the bad guy at the end was good in my opinion because even though I was guessing it was he who was the traitor, it's not meant for you to think that it was him. Plus, it turns out that he's a Lycan. Him being a minor to non-existent character until near the end makes it good because it allows the main characters to return and have expanded roles in the sequel. I didn't want any of the top four characters to die even though one did. Why should Galahad feel sad once he learns what Lucen is? A Lycan working with a Vampire? That ended his sad feelings if even if he had any plus his mentor died so why should he feel sad for Lucen? The main characters are still intact and yes, there's a lot of unanswered questions but The Order was never meant to be a one and done. A sequel is all but guaranteed and im personally hoping for a trilogy. Everything has to be built up, not squeezed in and rushed through in one game.

As for the stealth sections, I actually enjoyed them simply because I love games that allow you to use stealth and kill the enemies with a knife. Don't know why but im partial to that. Only negative is the instant kill when seen/spotted. Overall, I enjoyed the few stealth sections and I hope they return in the sequel but without the instant fail. If seen/spotted, it should turn into a fire fight.

I agree with you in regards to there being unanswered questions but that's how you build up the story. If you answer everything in one game, kind of defeats the purpose of having a sequel and for me personally, im hoping The Order becomes a trilogy for PS4 and I'll be there buying them on release day.

Also, im sure that when you look back at other game franchises, how many out of them all actually wrapped up every storyline in the first game? I seriously doubt that there's any because in doing so, you kill off the anticipation and excitement of the sequels because the conclusion already happened.

If you didn't enjoy the game or think it was any good at all, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it but I have realized that the majority of top tier games usually have sequels and whatnot already planned out or they wouldn't end the game the way they do. In the end for me personally, I was left wanting more, more, more and if you're a developer, that's the best thing you can have the consumer be once they finish the game because you know they're looking forward to the next game. To me, that's how you build a franchise. The first game is always going to have unanswered questions. I look at it like the majority if not all TV shows. They always end on a cliffhanger in the season finale and you have to wait months for it to continue. Granted, a sequel to The Order will be longer than a few months but it will be well worth the wait in my opinion.

[daniel77733]

Re: The Order: 1886

How long does this promotion last?

Ends Sunday.

It's Saturday February 28th. Best Buy ads and sales always start on a Sunday for the week.

[daniel77733]

Re: The Order: 1886

From known insider shinobi062.....

They're about 120-130 employees there. Not exactly small, but not huge either. From the conversations I've had, they spent a huge amount of time perfecting the engine for this initial installment. Time constraints came into play, goals slashed, but that's not really uncommon in development.

However, what has me most excited is that the main focus in a possible sequel are the gameplay systems. That's what was stated to me. The engine is in place and they're free to put all their efforts into gameplay design. And they want to do this, it isn't a result of any backlash over The Order's design, they as a team want that. By no means do they think the game's perfect as it is.

If what shinobi062 says is accurate, im pumped to be honest. The Order was Ready At Dawn's first true console game and they built a game engine specifically for PS4. The game engine is done and in place which means you'll see them work on the gameplay first and foremost for the eventual sequel.

To me, The Order: 1886 was the game that lays the foundation for all future PS4 games from Ready At Dawn. The visuals and seamless transition from gameplay to cut scenes is done. Music, sound effects, voice acting, characters and story is all in place. Once you have all that done, it becomes a lot easier to just work on the gameplay and add more to it while eliminating or altering the negatives.

Also, since the foundation and game engine is done, any future sequels would take 2-3 years as opposed to 5 which is understandable when you consider what they were doing with The Order.

Regardless of who liked or disliked The Order, im pumped and excited for a sequel and truly hoping for a trilogy that ends the franchise at the end of the PS4's life cycle. To me, that would be awesome!!!

[mrprice33]

Re: The Order: 1886

Spoiler

Isi was okay to me. Liked the Lafayette character. Don't think that either were the best characters. Galahad is easily the best character in my opinion. Lucen being the bad guy at the end was good in my opinion because even though I was guessing it was he who was the traitor, it's not meant for you to think that it was him. Plus, it turns out that he's a Lycan. Him being a minor to non-existent character until near the end makes it good because it allows the main characters to return and have expanded roles in the sequel. I didn't want any of the top four characters to die even though one did. Why should Galahad feel sad once he learns what Lucen is? A Lycan working with a Vampire? That ended his sad feelings if even if he had any plus his mentor died so why should he feel sad for Lucen? The main characters are still intact and yes, there's a lot of unanswered questions but The Order was never meant to be a one and done. A sequel is all but guaranteed and im personally hoping for a trilogy. Everything has to be built up, not squeezed in and rushed through in one game.

As for the stealth sections, I actually enjoyed them simply because I love games that allow you to use stealth and kill the enemies with a knife. Don't know why but im partial to that. Only negative is the instant kill when seen/spotted. Overall, I enjoyed the few stealth sections and I hope they return in the sequel but without the instant fail. If seen/spotted, it should turn into a fire fight.

I agree with you in regards to there being unanswered questions but that's how you build up the story. If you answer everything in one game, kind of defeats the purpose of having a sequel and for me personally, im hoping The Order becomes a trilogy for PS4 and I'll be there buying them on release day.

Also, im sure that when you look back at other game franchises, how many out of them all actually wrapped up every storyline in the first game? I seriously doubt that there's any because in doing so, you kill off the anticipation and excitement of the sequels because the conclusion already happened.

If you didn't enjoy the game or think it was any good at all, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it but I have realized that the majority of top tier games usually have sequels and whatnot already planned out or they wouldn't end the game the way they do. In the end for me personally, I was left wanting more, more, more and if you're a developer, that's the best thing you can have the consumer be once they finish the game because you know they're looking forward to the next game. To me, that's how you build a franchise. The first game is always going to have unanswered questions. I look at it like the majority if not all TV shows. They always end on a cliffhanger in the season finale and you have to wait months for it to continue. Granted, a sequel to The Order will be longer than a few months but it will be well worth the wait in my opinion.

BTW the first Assassin's Creed is a GREAT example of a self-contained kickoff to a much larger story. Tells a whole narrative but also leaves some dangling threads for future exploration. It's a very thin line.

But, if you'll allow me a little fanfic

Spoiler

Alright so let's say this happened instead, after Percival dies. The old man that was meeting with Percival sends word to Galahad that Percival was investigating corruption within The Order, and this is why he was killed. Galahad is reluctant to believe him, but agrees to a meeting where the old man gives him a clue but is killed, seemingly by the rebels. Galahad escapes and confides in Isi and Lucen. Lucen seems to believe Galahad but Isi is skeptical, which causes a fissure in their relationship. There's some conflict between Lucen and Isi, and they both have to decide where their loyalties lie. Isi decides that she doesn't believe that Hastings or her dad would ever do anything like that, while Lucen isn't so sure, but asks Galahad to compile more evidence. From there, Galahad tracks the rebel leader and is captured, and it is revealed to him that the rebellion knows what the order has been up to. He is shown proof of Hastings conspiring with the half-breeds (leave the vampires out of it) and brings this information to Lucen, who asks to meet with the rebel leaders himself. When Galahad arranges this, Lucen betrays him, reveals that he is the one helping Hastings and that Percival got too close, and there's an assault on the rebel base where the rebels are hit heavily. Galahad escapes with the help of Lakshmi, but comes across Lucen, and they fight to the death. Galahad kills Lucen right as Isi arrives to where ever they're fighting, and she holds Galahad at gunpoint, demanding he give himself up. Galahad looks her in the eye, and runs. Isi lets him go. Credits roll.

In a post-credit sequence, we see Hastings meeting with someone who is revealed to be the chancellor, and Isi discovers some clue that makes her start to believe Galahad. Cut to black.

This way you manage to wrap up the primary story thread in this game (who killed Percival), you start the conspiracy off, you give semi-closure to Galahad and Isi (who ultimately can't bring herself to kill him), and you still dangle enough threads for future games.

What do you think?