Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

[The GIGGAS]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

I have no issue at all with the girl being punished, but the punishment must fit the crime. It's akin to giving the death penalty to a shoplifter. That type of punishment is what exists in totalitarian governments, such as those seen in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, etc. It doesn't result in a more secure country. It just results in pent up hatred and fear. Part of what makes a society great is when the members of society have the ability to question authority and the rules put out before them. If this didn't exist, then slavery would still be en vogue, and racial segregation would still exist. I mean, back in the 1960's women weren't allowed to hold high ranking positions in companies. They were relegated to secretarial duties.

I certainly believe this girl deserved to be punished, but the idea that she should be arrested for it is too extreme. While as adults we can fully comprehend the consequences of our actions, children haven't psychologically developed that ability to its fullest. This is why children and adolescents are more likely to be injured while horsing around, or do foolish things like get pregnant at a very young age, drink themselves to death, or overdose on illegal drugs. They can't yet comprehend the consequences of their actions because they don't have the mental capacity to do that. I'm sure the girl knew she would get in trouble for doing that, but at the same time her brain was likely unable to grasp the concept of being arrested for something as minor as drawing on a desk. A proper punishment would have been to force the girl to clean all the desks in the classroom for the next two weeks and to have detention. If the parents try to fight that, then the school can say "We can have the girl's actions reported to the police and arrested instead." Then, the responsibility for the type of punishment falls onto the parents where it should lie.

Again, the punishment given out for an action needs to fit the crime otherwise it doesn't really do anything of benefit. Now, this girl will just have a deep fear and hatred of authority which can lead to far, far worse developments later on in life. (It may prevent her from questioning/reporting actions taken by her boss when she gets a job, or if she gets married and her husband is a control freak it can prevent her from ever leaving her husband in fear of all blame being placed on her). The really sad thing here is that her parents will probably file a lawsuit against the school system and further waste the taxpayer's money which was already wasted by having her arrested.

I have nothing to add to this well thought out, well said post.

[Heelfan71]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

it all starts out as doodling. Next thing you know she is in some back alley blowing some dude for heroin.

[GAMEC0CK2002]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

As a 2nd year teacher, I've seen good kids do stupid things. Had a kid write his name on a door in my classroom. Instead of writing him up, I made him stay after school to clean it up and wipe down all the desks in the classroom.

No need getting the administration involved in stuff you can handle yourself.

[stewaat]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

It is the principal's fault

I don't know how NY works...but it's not like she went to jail. The girl went across the street and probably was cited for a juvenile arrest. Then she went home with mommy.

IMO the principal asked the police to make an example of this girl.

[Schism 6]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

It is like as the world and society ages common sense goes out the window. Sad, feel bad for the little girl. Sure she was damaging school property, but this is a bit extreme.

Political correctness and loss of common sense are the biggest red flags to me about the future of this country.

We're slowly watching history before our eyes, our country is falling apart, and I fear it's too far gone to save...

[ScoobySnax]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

it all starts out as doodling. Next thing you know she is in some back alley blowing some dude for heroin.

LMAO

[kehlis]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

Did you read the article? The 1st line of the 2nd paragraph says she was expecting a lecture or maybe detention so she knew she was wrong and she expected to be punished.

That's the problem. She did something knowing it was wrong because she wasn't afraid of the punishment.

I think handcuffing her and taking her across the street is probably going overboard, but I don't have an issue with the Principal wanting to make an example of her. My guess is that this is an ongoing issue at that school if she was already expecting a set punishment.

[JBH3]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

Common sense would be not to judge this kid as if she is a adult. Kids screw up, do stupid things, break rules, etc etc. Their minds are developing and can't reason the way a full grown adult can. So yes there is ZERO common sense in throwing a 12 year old in jail for writing on a desk. My opinion of course.

She went to juvenile hall right? What adult goes to juve? She was handcuffed and sent to juve which yes...has a jail. She wasn't treated like an adult or lol "tried" like an adult. She was treated like a juvenile who broke the law er zero tolerance policy of the school.

The result of the school having to take this action is probably due to less and less of what they can do to punish the student "in-house". Whose to say they didn't at one time make kids stay back and clean EVERY desk in the classroom, not just the one they 'doodled' on, to teach them a lesson? I bet ya they did, and parents complained, as is the common theme. Therefore the school has a no non-sense policy and just said to hell w/ us handling it "in-house".

Since Police officers get paid about twice as much as school custodians, this was a waste of Tax Payer money. Give her an Hour of Dentention, the Janitor has 10 minutes of work, and a phone call home.

Instead she gets arrested and will be put in the system. Bravo, Mighty fine police work Chief Wiggam.

Personally I don't like the janitor having to clean a desk due to a kid's need to scribble on it. The janitors job is to provide a safe and sanitary workplace for the staff and students, not cover up for brat kids.

I have no issue at all with the girl being punished, but the punishment must fit the crime. It's akin to giving the death penalty to a shoplifter. That type of punishment is what exists in totalitarian governments, such as those seen in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, etc. It doesn't result in a more secure country. It just results in pent up hatred and fear. Part of what makes a society great is when the members of society have the ability to question authority and the rules put out before them. If this didn't exist, then slavery would still be en vogue, and racial segregation would still exist. I mean, back in the 1960's women weren't allowed to hold high ranking positions in companies. They were relegated to secretarial duties.

It's nothing like giving the death penalty to a shoplifter. On one hand you have someone LOSING THEIR LIFE for a petty crime. On the other a 12 yr old being punished and the school system using the most effective deterrent against adolescents. Humiliation.

Everyone needs to learn a little humility. It puts us in our place. For teenage kids it's the best defense in the classroom.

[AUChase]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

this is why I love my school. You're friends with all your teachers, and you can get away with almost anything. You can do anything you want so long as it's not too extreme.

There has to be at least one or two douche bags..

there always is

[WWF80sKid]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

Yeah, this is very extreme. She shouldn't have done it, and if she would have got a detention or two, maybe she would have learned her lesson, but being arrested?

Granted, she probably will never write on a desk again, but still, this is a little too much, especially her being 12.

[mgoblue678]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

She went to juvenile hall right? What adult goes to juve? She was handcuffed and sent to juve which yes...has a jail. She wasn't treated like an adult or lol "tried" like an adult. She was treated like a juvenile who broke the law er zero tolerance policy of the school.

The result of the school having to take this action is probably due to less and less of what they can do to punish the student "in-house". Whose to say they didn't at one time make gets stay back and clean EVERY desk in the classroom, not just the one they 'doodled' on, to teach them a lesson? I bet ya they did, and parents complained, as is the common theme. Therefore the school has a no non-sense policy and just said to hell w/ us handling it "in-house".



Personally I don't like the janitor having to clean a desk due to a kid's need to scribble on it. The janitors job is to provide a safe and sanitary workplace for the staff and students, not cover up for brat kids.



It's nothing like giving the death penalty to a shoplifter. On one hand you have someone LOSING THEIR LIFE for a petty crime. On the other a 12 yr old being punished and the school system using the most effective deterrent against adolescents. Humiliation.

Everyone needs to learn a little humility. It puts us in our place. For teenage kids it's the best defense in the classroom.

So one incident of writing on a desk makes this kid a brat who must be humiliated to you. You don't think that is a little judgmental on your part to say the least. Doodling on a desk doesn't make this kid some deviant criminal that needs to be humiliated in that manner.

It is pretty simple, the principle didn't use common sense in this case. He could given the student a detention, made them clean all the desks, those are the kind of punishments that fit the crime. I honestly can't believe someone would be trying to argue otherwise.

[Jdurg]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

One also has to remember that for a kid of that age, being humiliated like that in a manner which was most likely not expected can have far lasting repurcussions. This "could" psychologically damage her in a way that not many people can understand. When I was a kid, I got picked on BADLY. I went to school every day expecting some douchebag to trip me in the hallway, pants me in front of people, or steal something from me just to get their rocks off. For a long, long time it made me unwilling and unable to socialize with people in fear of being made fun of. Hell, even to this day if I hear people around me laughing my first instinct is that they are laughing at me. If it weren't for the couple of very close friends that I did have, I hate to say it but I may have flipped out in a manner far worse than those we've seen on TV.

In the same way, it also led to some of my less responsible behaviors while in college that on a few occassions almost cost me my life and could have resulted in permanent repurcussions. (And yes, I was aware of the punishments associated with it, but the fact that I was actually in the "in-crowd" was well worth it to me at the time). Thankfully, those days have passed but who knows what could have happened?

There were many other ways that this girl could have been made an example of which didn't result in having police intervention. They could have made a school announcement that the girl was being punished for doodling on the school's desk and would serve detention for next month having to aide the custodians in cleaning classrooms and bathrooms after school. Believe me, that would have been just as effective in setting an example but wouldn't have resulted in the potential psychological damage that getting led out of the school in handcuffs will. Those who would do acts deserving of being led out in handcuffs aren't going to refrain from doing that just because of this one incident.

Now listen, we can debate this all we want. What none of us know is the circumstances leading up to this event. We only know what the media has reported, and as is generally the case, the media only reports what makes a good story. We don't know if the school had bad problems like this before, or if this was something new that they decided to throw in there just for spits and giggles. Regardless of the background to this story, the end result was indeed well out of line for an apparent first-time offender.

[Whitesox]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

Did you read the article? The 1st line of the 2nd paragraph says she was expecting a lecture or maybe detention so she knew she was wrong and she expected to be punished.

So why did she do it?

Good, someone needs to be made into an example, otherwise other students will do the same expecting minimal punishment.

It's not ok to write on the desks anyway, IMO.

While arresting her may be a little extreme, I agree with making an example out of her.

Also, do we know if she had been in trouble for this before? Definitely wouldn't surprise me.

[Jdurg]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

So why did she do it?

Good, someone needs to be made into an example, otherwise other students will do the same expecting minimal punishment.

It's not ok to write on the desks anyway, IMO.

While arresting her may be a little extreme, I agree with making an example out of her.

I agree fully. Making an example of her IS a properly fitting punishment. But again, the punishment should really fit the crime.

Why did she do it? Well, I'm no child psychologist but we can all remember what it was like to be a kid. You wanted to fit in with the "in-crowd" and in a lot of cases that meant doing something against the rules to make the other kids think you're "cool". Is that morally right? No, it isn't, but children are the most psychologically fragile beings out there. Throw in the fact that as a 12 year old she is right in the battlefield of puberty and that makes things even more tough. Is it an excuse? Hell no. There are no such things as "excuses". Only explanations for why some things happen. While I can't speak on her behalf, her act of doodling on the desk and maybe getting punishment may have been her way of trying to show that she was "cool" and make her someone the kids would want to be friends with. Who knows?

[Whitesox]

Re: Girl's arrest for doodling raises concerns about zero tolerance

I agree fully. Making an example of her IS a properly fitting punishment. But again, the punishment should really fit the crime.

I personally don't necessarily agree with the idea of "punishment should fit the crime." Petty crimes are still crimes, and sometimes petty punishment just isn't enough to make an example out of someone. Especially if she had been in trouble for this before.