Federal Judge Rules Cheerleading is not a Sport

[dickey1331]

Re: Federal Judge Rules Cheerleading is not a Sport

I'm gonna hope you've been joking with most of your posts in this thread, because this is just ridiculous. By watching a routine, you can determine how hard it is to learn? It's not that I think either sport is harder to learn than the other, but neither you nor I can make that judgement considering neither of us have taken part in these two activities. You have a pretty weak argument if you think you can determine every intricacy of a routine of any type by watching the first 20 seconds of it, when every intricacy helps determine how hard a routine is to learn, meaning you'd have to pick up on all of them for your statement to be true.

Are you just looking for a response out of me at this point or what? I'm trying to give legitimate responses and, in return, you give me this:



If that is your real opinion, I can respect it, but was it said seriously or are you looking for a reaction?

Well I was in band and since I went to high school in a major area band is kinda a big thing. We have competitions and other things and I wouldnt call it a sport its more of a fine arts. We are judged by the UIL and we have region and area which is like a playoff to go to state. So in a way yes band is a "sport" and I would say its harder than cheerleading but we didnt have a very good cheerleading squad so that may play into my decision.

[mKoz26]

Re: Federal Judge Rules Cheerleading is not a Sport

Well I was in band and since I went to high school in a major area band is kinda a big thing. We have competitions and other things and I wouldnt call it a sport its more of a fine arts. We are judged by the UIL and we have region and area which is like a playoff to go to state. So in a way yes band is a "sport" and I would say its harder than cheerleading but we didnt have a very good cheerleading squad so that may play into my decision.

Is it physically harder than cheerleading, or is it the whole "playing music while moving in formations" thing. Basically, would marching band be harder if you stripped the instruments from the routine?

And just to make sure, you're talking about competitive cheerleading, right?
This, not the stuff you see at football games.

I'd also consider any type of band as an art form, and I think most former-band members would like to be classified as such rather than a sport.

[SuperBowlNachos]

Re: Federal Judge Rules Cheerleading is not a Sport

I'm gonna hope you've been joking with most of your posts in this thread, because this is just ridiculous. By watching a routine, you can determine how hard it is to learn? It's not that I think either sport is harder to learn than the other, but neither you nor I can make that judgement considering neither of us have taken part in these two activities. You have a pretty weak argument if you think you can determine every intricacy of a routine of any type by watching the first 20 seconds of it, when every intricacy helps determine how hard a routine is to learn, meaning you'd have to pick up on all of them for your statement to be true.

Are you just looking for a response out of me at this point or what? I'm trying to give legitimate responses and, in return, you give me this:



If that is your real opinion, I can respect it, but was it said seriously or are you looking for a reaction?

By opening both videos and seeing that it's a 8 minute band routine vs. a 2:30 minute cheerleading routine just furthers my point.

and if I just wanted a reaction I would be done since the mods are itching to press the ban button under your name.

I am being a little ridiculous. I know we would need a 3rd party to give their opinion on who won this debate then we could call it a sport.

Is it physically harder than cheerleading, or is it the whole "playing music while moving in formations" thing. Basically, would marching band be harder if you stripped the instruments from the routine?

And just to make sure, you're talking about competitive cheerleading, right?
This, not the stuff you see at football games.

I'd also consider any type of band as an art form, and I think most former-band members would like to be classified as such rather than a sport.

Yes I know what competitive cheerleading we are talking about.

and you must not know many people who are in the HS band.

[mKoz26]

Re: Federal Judge Rules Cheerleading is not a Sport

Yes I know what competitive cheerleading we are talking about.

and you must not know many people who are in the HS band.

This post wasn't even directed at you. I wasn't asking you.

And I certainly know people who have been in the HS band. Because they're playing music, I think they'd rather it be considered an art form rather than only focusing on the marching. I don't know, but I certainly think that would be their label of choice.

You can make all of the snooty comments you want, but it doesn't make your argument any stronger.

[SuperBowlNachos]

Re: Federal Judge Rules Cheerleading is not a Sport

Snooty comments? I'm not the one throwing the I word around.

[deaduck]

Re: Federal Judge Rules Cheerleading is not a Sport

And that just isn't true. If cheerleading was declared a sport, then in schools that receive state and federal funding they would be required to give the same type of consideration they do to other sports. Which would include proper facilities, properly trained coaches, athletic trainers and doctors. As it is now, most programs have none of these things, and the safety of these girls suffers because of it.

We can argue whether it's a sport or an athletic competition, but the fact remains that it needs to be officially deemed a sport for the safety of those who participate in it. It's dangerous what these girls do, and they do it without any of the support that other sports programs get which makes it even more so. Disregarding these girls safety because you don't think it's a proper sport like football or basketball, or because doing so might hurt men's sports under Title IX is petty.

I get your point and I'm not arguing agianst the improved safety of ANYBODY but as the initial court case shows...Universities are just using this issue to remove other women's sports and scale back the budget. I have little hope that this would lead to any improvement in the safety/training/budget of cheerleading programs.

Schools like FIU have already moved to eliminate the cheerleading programs due to budget cuts. Cutting the nationally ranked fourth ranked squad only saved roughly 45,000 dollars. And in response, the squad raised private donations and further distanced themselves from any chance of university "support".

[deaduck]

Re: Federal Judge Rules Cheerleading is not a Sport

"The winner is based on judgement"
Wrestling, boxing, and MMA often come to a judgement call by scorekeepers, making them no better than cheerleading.

The sport of wrestling doesn't really fall into this category.

Points are scored on specific actions that have guidlines for the act of awarding them. You do not factor in agression/tactics/effectiveness like boxing and MMA.

Any "judgement" that factors in would be subjective only to human error.

[Bahnzo]

Re: Federal Judge Rules Cheerleading is not a Sport

Universities are just using this issue to remove other women's sports and scale back the budget. I have little hope that this would lead to any improvement in the safety/training/budget of cheerleading programs.

I'm thinking more along the lines of high school as well. I would hope universities would have better safety measures than high schools. It's in high schools that these squads are run on shoestring budgets with "coaches" that get only 3 hours of training, etc.

Still it couldn't do anything but improve safety. It would be required of them to do so. If they couldn't afford it, then cut it. I'd rather it either be done with the proper degree of safety, or not at all.

[deaduck]

Re: Federal Judge Rules Cheerleading is not a Sport

I'm thinking more along the lines of high school as well. I would hope universities would have better safety measures than high schools. It's in high schools that these squads are run on shoestring budgets with "coaches" that get only 3 hours of training, etc.

Still it couldn't do anything but improve safety. It would be required of them to do so. If they couldn't afford it, then cut it. I'd rather it either be done with the proper degree of safety, or not at all.

Not sure about most High Schools but the cheerleaders shared the same buses/trainer/facilities as we did.

And sadly, I would have guessed their coach was better qualified to not only run their squad...but our football team as well.

[dickey1331]

Re: Federal Judge Rules Cheerleading is not a Sport

This post wasn't even directed at you. I wasn't asking you.

And I certainly know people who have been in the HS band. Because they're playing music, I think they'd rather it be considered an art form rather than only focusing on the marching. I don't know, but I certainly think that would be their label of choice.

You can make all of the snooty comments you want, but it doesn't make your argument any stronger.

Marching and concert season are two different things. Some people love marching and some people love just playing in a chair. I loved marching season when I was in high school but I hated concert season. Do I think band is more athletic than cheerleading? Yes. Do I think it is more of a sport than cheerleading? Yes, even marching band has its own "national championship".

[SuperBowlNachos]

Re: Federal Judge Rules Cheerleading is not a Sport

Do I think band is more athletic than cheerleading? Yes.

Woah now don't go that far. You don't have to be in nearly the physical condition for marching band as your do competitive cheerleading. There is a reason the stereotype is that most people in the band are nerds(no offense), and I'm not talking about these DCI people who are actually in shape and do this year round.

But either way, neither is still a sport.

[dickey1331]

Re: Federal Judge Rules Cheerleading is not a Sport

Woah now don't go that far. You don't have to be in nearly the physical condition for marching band as your do competitive cheerleading. There is a reason the stereotype is that most people in the band are nerds(no offense), and I'm not talking about these DCI people who are actually in shape and do this year round.

But either way, neither is still a sport.

If we compare high school marching band to high school cheerleading than yes marching band requires more physical condition. If we are going to compare competitive cheerleading then you must compare it to DCI or Bands of America (BOA) which is high school marching bands championship and I still think it requires more physical condition than competitive cheerleading.

[elgreazy1]

Re: Federal Judge Rules Cheerleading is not a Sport

My definition of a sport is you have a definitive winner that isn't based on opinion. IE. The fastest time in a race and getting scores based on what 3 people think and their biases.

Then what about MMA, boxing, gymnastics, diving, etc? They're all based on score cards and not definite winners at times.

Where's elgreazy?

Got to this too late.

Having participated in football, track, & powerlifting in high school then cheered in college I can damn well say it is a sport. None of those other sports demanded as much from me physically as cheerleading, which was odd. Consider this: you have to combine the power of weight lifting with the explosion of football and the agility of gymnastics all coupled with the mental aspects of routines. Most guys can't even lift 100 pounds over their heads but here I was creating a blast of force to move 100 pounds of human weight up 10+ feet in the air all while having to concentrate on catching this 3 sq inch base (the girl's insole of their foot) with one hand. Not easy. The countless hours of practice on the mats, in the weight room and at the (gymnastics) gym were not only grueling, but pushed my body to the limits; I mean, a 250 pound guy is not meant to do flips of any sort, but there I was busting my backside everyday to learn. Add to the fact that their is no defined season and that you solely aren't limited to gamedays (events, games of all sports, fundraisers, school funcitons, etc) and the sport becomes year-round and even more taxing on your time.

This sham of a ruling is a big mistake. They're totally screwing a bunch of students - female athletes included - from now receiving scholarships or other need-based money based on the sport alone. That's my biggest issue because most of these students actually do well in school and actually graduate where as football & basketball players who generally get full ride scholarships have some of the lowest graduation rates in all universities.

Think it's easy, try doing this: (yes the music is awful)
<object width="480" height="385">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VlDY-D5mCwo&hl=en_US&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></object>

[MassNole]

Re: Federal Judge Rules Cheerleading is not a Sport

Woah now don't go that far. You don't have to be in nearly the physical condition for marching band as your do competitive cheerleading. There is a reason the stereotype is that most people in the band are nerds(no offense), and I'm not talking about these DCI people who are actually in shape and do this year round.

But either way, neither is still a sport.

If competitive band is compared to competitive cheerleading, then band is much, much more physically demanding in all aspects. Lets think of it this way, you are carry and instrument that can weight up to what, 75-100 lbs, wearing an extremely hot and uncomfortable uniform, while marching up to several miles while expelling oxygen the whole time depending on the instrument. Really you think that is LESS physically demanding than cheerleading?

[deaduck]

Re: Federal Judge Rules Cheerleading is not a Sport

elgreazy 1...

Agian, it's no disrespect to cheerleading but the difficulty and physical ability involved shouldn't qualify it as a "sport". It fits more neatly under the umbrella of an art form to me. I feel the same about a variety of "sports" that are less about a stategy for winning/scoring and more about a stylized/technique judged competition.

And I keep think people are misreading this ruling...the judge's ruling agianst the cheerleading as a sport PROTECTS the girls volleyball team in favor of a cheerleading program that won't get cut either way.