What is wrong with our society?

[DaveDQ]

Re: What is wrong with our society?

That's pretty archaic. Why do you think that system makes anything better?


As for your first question see my post here http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2044830098 as far as your claims about the nature of being in control and premeditated.

Premeditated murder isn't something simple. A military operation is premeditated murder - way more premeditated than what any killer thinks of - do you want to criminalize that? Killing a killer is premeditated murder - you don't want that to be illegal do you? Those two words mean functionally nothing. Ehhh yeah - there's a condition called Kleptomania that causes people to have an irrepressible urge to steal things that surprise surprise, like most disorders come down to a combo of environment and chemical processes in one's brain that are impossible to control. Of course every thief doesn't have that disorder but its a possible explanation.

I don't really think coddling has anything to do with it. It's still wholly irrational to have a chain of logic that goes "I didn't get what I want today therefore I'm going to find a gun, go to a school and shoot some people". I'd say its some sort of mental illness that does that. Same applies with videogames etc. I'd argue that the writing was on the wall for the type who shoots people for no reason to do so long before they touched a controller or knew the first thing about morals. Even if you're right that that thing plays a factor there's still a genetic predisposition towards some sort of psychosis that exists before knowledge of videogames or parents that allows those things to serve as a trigger for psychosis and in that case no parent telling a kid that videogames weren't real or lack of coddling would've stopped it. They'd play a videogame, bet told that they weren't real over and over again and still be convinced that it was reality regardless due to their predisposition if it was strong enough. Then it becomes a question of identifying that predisposition before it makes itself apparent which is pretty much impossible at this point.

I read what you wrote earlier. However, it is my opinion that this young man knows exactly what he did, and did so because he is depraved. He made the decision to do what he did because that is what he wanted to do. Using the actions of the military is way off. Exactly how is it "way more premeditated?" Is it because you are thinking it's the military so the carrying out of what they do is more complex? And then the question about criminalizing that? The two are entirely different. You are talking about a boy that decided he was going to get up and kill people for no particular reason other than to just do it, and then the operations of the military, which is in place to defend a country.

I just happen to think you are throwing around "mental illness" a bit much, claiming that someone who doesn't get what they want and goes and kills because of it is mentally ill. Sorry, that person simply doesn't know how to live with not getting what they want and makes an improper decision in dealing with it. That's not mental illness. That's rooted in bad parenting.

But we have to be careful because we are close to violating the TOS here.

[shugknight]

Re: What is wrong with our society?

That's pretty archaic. Why do you think that system makes anything better?

It is, but our current system isn't doing any better. In fact, I feel that a lot of crimes are committed because there aren't any harsh punishment that would fit the crime.

How many times have you heard about a rapist being freed and doing it again?
How many times have you heard a murdered being on parole and killing again?

Even if you say once, that's way too many times.

Using my system, prevents these things from happening. And I'm pretty sure the idiots that see this sort of stuff and think I can do it too, will think twice when they see that person doesn't have hands anymore or their junk.

Everything is too PC nowadays. Which is where I feel this all stems from. Parent's can't discipline their kids anymore for fear of child abuse, so they let their kids run rampant and thus gives those kids the mentality that it's ok to do these things because you won't get punished.

Gone are the days that if you do something stupid, you're going to get whipped. I was whipped when I was younger, and that made me realized that doing something stupid will get me punished. Now I hear 7-8-9 year old kids talking back to their parents. I've had to yell at my nephews for even looking at their grandparents wrong. They know I don't F around with them and will punish them if I have to.

[Fresh Tendrils]

Re: What is wrong with our society?

As far as rape goes I think its more of a cultural/societal thing rather than a punishment thing. I think a lot of people have a different way of thinking about it. Not necessarily that it is "okay," but the focus is often brought upon the victim rather than the attacker. Considering some of the comments that made headlines last year I think its a bigger issue than just rape and would expand it to women's rights/issues as a whole. And I realize that rape isn't just a female problem, but I think the root cause for a lot of attacks is thinking that nothing was done wrong.

[Brandon13]

I wasn't constructing anything. This boy is depraved. He did something entirely evil and made it clear with his actions in court that he was completely aware and conscious of what he did. He wrote on his shirt, "killer." He told the victims' families that he now masturbates over the memories of what he did.

Rather than broadening the meaning of mental illness, why don't we call this what it is. Premeditated murder. And if we continue to broaden this idea of mental illness, where does it stop? Are we now able to explain why a man or woman rushes into a home to rob a family of its possessions by claiming mental illness?

I'm not arguing in favor of mercy being shown to this kid. Clearly he is mental ill, but sometimes, as in this case, that is of little consequence. Throw him in jail and subject him to harsh labor for the rest of his life, as far as I'm concerned. He is clearly too far gone for anyone to realistically believe he can be a functioning, contributing member of society.

And no, you would not successfully argue insanity with your example at the end. That's not how it works in practice.

You would think if someone was truly mentally ill that there would be no control over how or what they do.

All I'm saying is that consciousness of action does not necessarily invalidate mental illness as a contributing factor in one's actions.

[UMhester04]

A couple weeks ago, our school had a conference on first response gun violence. I remember thinking that stuff never happens here. We live in very rural communities were everyone knows everyone. You can count all the murders in this county over the last hundred years on one hand.

Yesterday at School we had a situation were my school went into "lock down." My kids told me they heard a gunman had been shooting in the neighboring village. I didn't believe it at first, but looked on the computer and saw this man had blown up his house, drove to a barber shop were he shot 4 people, then proceeded to drive to the Jiffy Lube oil change and shoot two more.

After all was said 4 innocent people lost their lives and two are in the hospital in critical condition. All schools and people in the area were locked in their homes and work for hours. The man then went to an abandoned bar and fired shots at police were he was surrounded over night.

The man was finally taken out this morning and the reality is setting in. 4th grade students were telling me today their grandparents were there and saw everything and were pulling in to get an oil change.

It is scary stuff. I really don't understand what would cause a person to do this. Is this going to be our society now? People deciding they need to mass murder innocent people?

I am thankful to all the police, troopers, FBI, fire departments and first responders who battled the cold all night to make everyone feel a little safer.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/g...4TKeWFU9PvF5eO

I graduated from MV a few years ago, not really sure how the Herkimer area is but Utica is pretty rough.