Tactics?

[Krebstar]

Re: Tactics?

You've got the right idea with those line settings. People think it's an automatic to get behind the defense when in fact it just allows more build up in front of the back 4. Line length is close to what I have as well.

Matt, do you have some updated sliders other than the version 6?

[Hutton]

Re: Tactics?

You've got the right idea with those line settings. People think it's an automatic to get behind the defense when in fact it just allows more build up in front of the back 4. Line length is close to what I have as well.

The line settings are absolutely crucial IMO. It really started playing nicely when I went to 63/45/40 line settings.

From watching EPL matches on TV this weekend plus some mid week Champ League it is clear that the back 4 in real life push up much higher and are way more involved in the play than FIFA represents with default sliders. CB's will push up past the half, FB's providing outlet support all the way to the 18 yard box. This also allows the backline to clean up balls before an attack can be started.

FIFA line settings on default push the back 4 WAY WAY WAY too far back, rendering them useless. It just opens up the MF and makes passing lanes readily available.

I really am enjoying the game now with these sliders/tactics.

[Matt10]

Re: Tactics?

Matt, do you have some updated sliders other than the version 6?

Im' working on them right now. Just playing with line settings. Having a lot of fun testing. Can't get on Twitch till after 9 pm though.

The line settings are absolutely crucial IMO. It really started playing nicely when I went to 63/45/40 line settings.

From watching EPL matches on TV this weekend plus some mid week Champ League it is clear that the back 4 in real life push up much higher and are way more involved in the play than FIFA represents with default sliders. CB's will push up past the half, FB's providing outlet support all the way to the 18 yard box. This also allows the backline to clean up balls before an attack can be started.

FIFA line settings on default push the back 4 WAY WAY WAY too far back, rendering them useless. It just opens up the MF and makes passing lanes readily available.

I really am enjoying the game now with these sliders/tactics.

Man, this post is a breath of fresh air. Thank you, man. I knew my approach wasn't off and if people would just give the "weird" line settings a chance - they'd enjoy a hell of a game.

We have to remember that the game is built on MAN TO MAN marking. So yes, push up the line - they won't get beat on counter attacks all the time - because they'll be marking someone already, there is no fear.

Great post. Finally someone who gets it.

[TheLetterZ]

Re: Tactics?

Hoping I get to write a positive follow-up to that last article thanks to you guys! Keep up the great work.

[Krebstar]

Re: Tactics?

Well, just like Matt and Hutton, I'm definitely not giving up just yet.

I did see some big improvements last night. All to do with a combination of line width, and custom tactics. Still not as big of a variety as I want, but I think tonight I can get it a little closer. Heck, I think it might be possible to make the AI dribble around less. Maybe.

Custom tactics are not yet dead! And this damn game might be salvageable. I hope so, because if you can get the AI to do something other than what they usually do, it can be a fun game.

[Hutton]

Re: Tactics?

Well, just like Matt and Hutton, I'm definitely not giving up just yet.

I did see some big improvements last night. All to do with a combination of line width, and custom tactics. Still not as big of a variety as I want, but I think tonight I can get it a little closer. Heck, I think it might be possible to make the AI dribble around less. Maybe.

Custom tactics are not yet dead! And this damn game might be salvageable. I hope so, because if you can get the AI to do something other than what they usually do, it can be a fun game.

I played as Leicester City vs CPU Chelsea. I set chelsea to have 65 crossing tactic, and they crossed the ball a total of 10 times, 5 successful. I almost felt like it was too much crossing, so something definitely changed when I boosted their crossing (they targeted Diego Costa to great effect, and eliminated me by a score of 5-1).

Getting the CPU to play more consistently slow is still a challenge even with Buildup Speed=1, but when you start to modify Pass Length and Chance Creation Risk I think the CPU plays a much more realistic game.

I think it is somewhat salvageable, but finding the right combo could be a challenge, both being able to identify how a club actually plays IRL and how we would model them in FIFA.

I did some stats analysis and found that so far in the Prem this year chelsea is crossing the ball on average 17 times a match (Soho leads at 28 times!). I think EA simple doesn't recognize how clubs, even top skilled clubs like chelsea or Man City, really play. In general, teams IRL play a much more direct, long ball game than FIFA does, probably because the causal fan would rather tiki taka pass the ball around the pitch for 90 minutes than hoof the ball up the channel.

Below is some stats from league play in 2014. I'm working on converting these stats along with some general tendencies (does a team play an offside trap, general width, aggression etc) to develop some type of "formula"/guideline for setting CTT. Any input from you would be of huge benefit, as I don't full understand what each of the CTT options really effect.




<table border="0" width="511" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><colgroup><col style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:5205;width:110pt" width="146"> <col style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:2104;width:44pt" width="59"> <col style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:3868;width:82pt" width="109"> <col style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:3214;width:68pt" width="90"> <col style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:3811;width:80pt" width="107"> </colgroup><tbody><tr style="height:14.4pt" height="19"> <td class="xl63" style="height:14.4pt;width:110pt" height="19" width="146">Team</td> <td class="xl63" style="width:44pt" width="59">Cross pg</td> <td class="xl63" style="width:82pt" width="109">Through Ball pg</td> <td class="xl63" style="width:68pt" width="90">Long Balls pg</td> <td class="xl63" style="width:80pt" width="107">Short Pass
</td> </tr> <tr style="height:14.4pt" height="19"> <td style="height:14.4pt" height="19">Southampton</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:44pt" align="right" width="59">28</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:82pt" align="right" width="109">1</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:68pt" align="right" width="90">70</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:80pt" align="right" width="107">440</td> </tr> <tr style="height:14.4pt" height="19"> <td style="height:14.4pt" height="19">Arsenal</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:44pt" align="right" width="59">25</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:82pt" align="right" width="109">4</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:68pt" align="right" width="90">43</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:80pt" align="right" width="107">580</td> </tr> <tr style="height:14.4pt" height="19"> <td style="height:14.4pt" height="19">Newcastle United</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:44pt" align="right" width="59">25</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:82pt" align="right" width="109">2</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:68pt" align="right" width="90">57</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:80pt" align="right" width="107">426</td> </tr> <tr style="height:14.4pt" height="19"> <td style="height:14.4pt" height="19">West Bromwich Albion</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:44pt" align="right" width="59">25</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:82pt" align="right" width="109">2</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:68pt" align="right" width="90">68</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:80pt" align="right" width="107">363</td> </tr> <tr style="height:14.4pt" height="19"> <td style="height:14.4pt" height="19">West Ham</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:44pt" align="right" width="59">25</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:82pt" align="right" width="109">1</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:68pt" align="right" width="90">63</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:80pt" align="right" width="107">330</td> </tr> <tr style="height:14.4pt" height="19"> <td style="height:14.4pt" height="19">Manchester United</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:44pt" align="right" width="59">24</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:82pt" align="right" width="109">1</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:68pt" align="right" width="90">75</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:80pt" align="right" width="107">493</td> </tr> <tr style="height:14.4pt" height="19"> <td style="height:14.4pt" height="19">Stoke</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:44pt" align="right" width="59">23</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:82pt" align="right" width="109">1</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:68pt" align="right" width="90">65</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:80pt" align="right" width="107">350</td> </tr> <tr style="height:14.4pt" height="19"> <td style="height:14.4pt" height="19">Tottenham</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:44pt" align="right" width="59">22</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:82pt" align="right" width="109">2</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:68pt" align="right" width="90">63</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:80pt" align="right" width="107">437</td> </tr> <tr style="height:14.4pt" height="19"> <td style="height:14.4pt" height="19">Hull</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:44pt" align="right" width="59">22</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:82pt" align="right" width="109">0</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:68pt" align="right" width="90">70</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:80pt" align="right" width="107">351</td> </tr> <tr style="height:14.4pt" height="19"> <td style="height:14.4pt" height="19">Manchester City</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:44pt" align="right" width="59">21</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:82pt" align="right" width="109">3</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:68pt" align="right" width="90">46</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:80pt" align="right" width="107">588</td> </tr> <tr style="height:14.4pt" height="19"> <td style="height:14.4pt" height="19">Liverpool</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:44pt" align="right" width="59">21</td> <td class="xl64" 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style="height:14.4pt" height="19">Leicester</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:44pt" align="right" width="59">20</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:82pt" align="right" width="109">1</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:68pt" align="right" width="90">73</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:80pt" align="right" width="107">294</td> </tr> <tr style="height:14.4pt" height="19"> <td style="height:14.4pt" height="19">Sunderland</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:44pt" align="right" width="59">19</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:82pt" align="right" width="109">1</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:68pt" align="right" width="90">57</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:80pt" align="right" width="107">341</td> </tr> <tr style="height:14.4pt" height="19"> <td style="height:14.4pt" height="19">Chelsea</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:44pt" align="right" width="59">17</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:82pt" align="right" width="109">2</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:68pt" align="right" 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width="59">16</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:82pt" align="right" width="109">2</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:68pt" align="right" width="90">66</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:80pt" align="right" width="107">496</td> </tr> <tr style="height:14.4pt" height="19"> <td style="height:14.4pt" height="19">Swansea</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:44pt" align="right" width="59">14</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:82pt" align="right" width="109">1</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:68pt" align="right" width="90">63</td> <td class="xl64" style="width:80pt" align="right" width="107">432</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

[Krebstar]

Re: Tactics?

I played as Leicester City vs CPU Chelsea. I set chelsea to have 65 crossing tactic, and they crossed the ball a total of 10 times, 5 successful. I almost felt like it was too much crossing, so something definitely changed when I boosted their crossing (they targeted Diego Costa to great effect, and eliminated me by a score of 5-1).

Getting the CPU to play more consistently slow is still a challenge even with Buildup Speed=1, but when you start to modify Pass Length and Chance Creation Risk I think the CPU plays a much more realistic game.

I think it is somewhat salvageable, but finding the right combo could be a challenge, both being able to identify how a club actually plays IRL and how we would model them in FIFA.

I did some stats analysis and found that so far in the Prem this year chelsea is crossing the ball on average 17 times a match (Soho leads at 28 times!). I think EA simple doesn't recognize how clubs, even top skilled clubs like chelsea or Man City, really play. In general, teams IRL play a much more direct, long ball game than FIFA does, probably because the causal fan would rather tiki taka pass the ball around the pitch for 90 minutes than hoof the ball up the channel.

Below is some stats from league play in 2014. I'm working on converting these stats along with some general tendencies (does a team play an offside trap, general width, aggression etc) to develop some type of "formula"/guideline for setting CTT. Any input from you would be of huge benefit, as I don't full understand what each of the CTT options really effect.

The problem is that this year, the CTT values seem to act differently than the last several years.

But, if you got a team to cross 10 times, that's great, because we're still condensing 90 minutes down to 20-30 minutes.

I definitely got teams to cross a ton last night. Definitely to the point of "too much", which to me means it's just perfect. It means I'm not used to it, and that I should change my gameplan to defend it.

As for long passes, they happen now and then, and I don't think we'll get them to happen with the frequency that they did last year. Last year, I could make it so a team would try and hit one over the top on you to the point of annoyance. Which in a way was fun, because it was so different from playing a team like Arsenal. This year, not as much. I think this year we'll have to settle with some teams play slow and short, some play slow and cross, some play fast and cross, etc.

As for teams playing slowly, yeah, I'm going to mess around with that a bit tonight. The tradeoff is that when you make them play slow, they'll also do the whole dribble around thing, but that's okay. Also, they won't pass it long very often, but oh well.

If I can get the tactics to feel close to how they did last year, I'll be happy. I don't think they're going to be as effective, but we can at least get teams to play differently.

One last thing, I wouldn't worry too much about making each time play like themselves. For me the goal has always been to make teams play in a realistic manner, as a team would. If it's not just how that team plays in real life, it's okay, as long as they're not playing default EA FIFA ball.

[Hutton]

Re: Tactics?

The problem is that this year, the CTT values seem to act differently than the last several years.

But, if you got a team to cross 10 times, that's great, because we're still condensing 90 minutes down to 20-30 minutes.

I definitely got teams to cross a ton last night. Definitely to the point of "too much", which to me means it's just perfect. It means I'm not used to it, and that I should change my gameplan to defend it.

Yes, playing on 10 min half and getting a upper echelon team like chelsea to cross it so much was a thing of beauty. And their skill was showcased nicely on crosses, not always going for the headed shot, but sometimes laying a ball off to another attacker.

I love having to modify my strategy to try to prevent crosses if that's what it takes to stop the threat.

As for long passes, they happen now and then, and I don't think we'll get them to happen with the frequency that they did last year. Last year, I could make it so a team would try and hit one over the top on you to the point of annoyance. Which in a way was fun, because it was so different from playing a team like Arsenal. This year, not as much. I think this year we'll have to settle with some teams play slow and short, some play slow and cross, some play fast and cross, etc.

For long passes I think it has a lot to do with A) defensively what you are allowing/preventing the CPU attack to do, and B) individual player skills/traits/ratings along with the tactical settings. Oh and add to that the slider line settings (I strongly believe that a higher line height gives the CPU the opportunity to play the ball over the top) along with the voodoo science of the CPU Pass Error slider.

chelsea was playing numerous long balls/lob passes/field switching passes against me.....not to the point of annoying, mostly because I quickly got sick & tired or the tiki taka ground passes all game long & over dribbling.

As for teams playing slowly, yeah, I'm going to mess around with that a bit tonight. The tradeoff is that when you make them play slow, they'll also do the whole dribble around thing, but that's okay. Also, they won't pass it long very often, but oh well.

We need to find the sweet spot on Buildup Speed where the CPU will look long but not dribble around excessively. I do know that when I played Man City with Buildup=1 they were more patient in getting the ball out of their backline, which was lovely.

If I can get the tactics to feel close to how they did last year, I'll be happy. I don't think they're going to be as effective, but we can at least get teams to play differently.

One last thing, I wouldn't worry too much about making each time play like themselves. For me the goal has always been to make teams play in a realistic manner, as a team would. If it's not just how that team plays in real life, it's okay, as long as they're not playing default EA FIFA ball.

Variety is great. I think at the very least it will be possible to make teams feel quite a bit different from each other.....it's just a shame EA couldn't achieve this out of the box.

That said, my goal would be to develop a statistically based set of CTT, so arsenal play a possession based game with the killer final ball, chelsea draw you in & look to counter attack, Burnley try to beat you with the long game, West Ham cross a lot, Crystal Palace play aggressive & foul the crap out of you, and Spurs pressure high up the pitch.

[PAPERNUT]

Re: Tactics?

http://cartilagefreecaptain.sbnation.com/2014/2/12/5404348/english-premier-league-shot-statistics

Here is a nice breakdown I use that shows advanced stats for the leagues to go more in depth how teams play and create their chances versus just the stats themselves.

[therizing02]

Re: Tactics?

For stats....

http://www.fourfourtwo.com/

They even have a free app. Great stuff here....

[Hutton]

Re: Tactics?

http://cartilagefreecaptain.sbnation.com/2014/2/12/5404348/english-premier-league-shot-statistics

Here is a nice breakdown I use that shows advanced stats for the leagues to go more in depth how teams play and create their chances versus just the stats themselves.

Oh this is some interesting data, I like this. Thanks for sharing.

[saintric]

Re: Tactics?

just went on that stats link posted and based Arsenals tactics around it, we all know their default style is short tika taka slow build up but even Mourinho said at the weekend after the game Arsenal have changed and adapted their game slightly they move with more pace, dont press as much but still a fair bit and going by those stats they shoot more than any other team apart from chelsea they also give away alot of crosses to the opposition

so here what I put on world class default sliders apart from

shot accuracy 35/35
height 65/65
length 70/70
width 70/70
marking 60/60

arsenal tactics I made were

speed 50 - the stats say most of their play is medium speed
passing 27 - will always be short
positioning organised

passing 70 - the stats say they try alot of through balls & runs into the box
crossing 45 - pretty standard amount for Arsenal maybe a tad too high but since sanchez joined he tries crosses wide EDIT - STATS SAY THEY MAKE SECOND LEAST
shooting 60 - they take the 2nd most shots in EPL didnt want to go too high as it might have ruined the runs into the box setting
positioning free form..this is set to organised by default which is a crazy choice by EA Arsenal are renowned for having midfielders wingers making runs in different directions

pressure 65 - they like to try win it high up the field but not barcelona like but more than most teams
aggression 50 - unsure of this setting but watching them it can vary sometimes they like to stand off and cover the space
width 60 - gave them some more width players like sanchez hug the lines waiting for crossfield passes recieve the ball and drive towards the opposition

played them with liverpool at the emirates and I felt these made a difference they put me under pressure but not by doing 30 passes back and forth but by 4 5 in the last third and trying a killer through ball.I also felt they were able to be countered if you win the ball back off them and hit them wide which is a real Arsenal weakness but being the good passing team they are once they got in the last third it was hard to keep shape and win it back without tracking their runs.

overall I am alot happier with the tactics right now maybe the AI is more intelligent than past FIFA games where say if you set long ball to west hams tactics they would spam them relentlessly where as now they will do it if the situation arises otherwise they will choose a different route.Apologies if anything was incorrect regarding what each setting does in tactics this is my first time adjusting the AI settings I only ever did my own team in career mode

EDIT - I also set chelsea some new tactics to sit deep press and counter at speed this also seemed to work to some degree but they were made before the stats link (which is superb by the way) was posted so I need to adjust more

[saintric]

Re: Tactics?

here are some tables that hopefully can help someone making tactics? I put the teams in order of who does the most to who does the least this is compiled from papernuts link

most shots from outside the box
qpr
arsenal
liverpool
chelsea
wba
sunderland
everton
newcastle
stoke
man utd
burnley
west ham
man city
hull
southampton
swansea
spurs
palace
leicester
villa

chances created from crosses
liverpool
west brom
sunderland
west ham
qpr
hull
leicester
palace
southampton
man city
spurs
villa
swansea
stoke
chelsea
burnley
man utd
newcastle
arsenal
everton

chances created from through balls
arsenal
swansea
west brom
spurs
leicester
chelsea
everton
man utd
sunderland
man city
southampton
newcastle
crystal palace
qpr
west ham
all other have 0%

[miketheslummy]

Re: Tactics?

whoscored.com is a nice website to find out some stats and team tendencies.

I edited fifa and PES tactics over years, and I'm having great time reading at you guys.
You're doing a good job!

Line setting is something that makes the game feels different and more "open"...

[PAPERNUT]

Re: Tactics?

I'm more interested in finding out what settings and tactic numbers make the teams actually do what they are supposed to do, then we can fill in the blanks. What sliders limit crossing and so on.