FIFA 17 OS Community Sliders

[adoptedscouse]

Re: FIFA 17 OS Community Sliders

Hi Sarezar, are you saying you can achieve more dangerous or cross field passes by upping the pass speed a bit more?

I love the new set compared to old set with update. But I had to lower pass acc to see this again as 60 was to conservative, so could I up it back to 60 & higher pass speed instead to achieve same thing???


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[andanesean]

Re: FIFA 17 OS Community Sliders

I don't understand. The issues you are describing in your first video (cheers for the "honorary mention" btw) exist in the second video too.


You can still pass very easily in defense and in early midfield.
The defensive pressure increases only when you have received the ball and the rest of your team are still not being pressed enough.
At times, things do get chaotic (as do in real life).


And the most important thing is that you are playing on default in the first video. Why are you not comparing it to the previous final set? When was default playing well to start now?


What you have done in comparison to the previous final set is slow down the pace, make the CPU pass less accurately, remove the drilled passes, and make both teams struggle more to control the ball (primarily from the air, as pass speed is way down now). Fine. I understand what you've done. But I don't understand why. You never raised fast speed, too accurate passing, too perfect controls as issues. Only the drilled passing has been an issue since day 1 for you (which if fair enough, I fully understand it) but why did drilled passing become an issue now? With the previous final set, it was removed a lot. The latest update has not increased how fast the ball travels. So why decrease pass speed again?


Since my last post (just after the update), I played a whole season. It's true that just after the update there were issues with defensive positioning but as my season progressed, it got a lot better without me making any changes. I saved a video which I will post this evening with some comments and we can compare.


Now, I'm glad everyone likes the new set. By all means, I'm not suggesting anyone to take this as feedback that the set is bad. And I'm not going to discuss again my opinion on why I think such slow CPU pass speed makes the CPU less threatening (every time I mentioned this, my opinion was criticised very negatively so I'm not going to go through this again). But I would appreciate some specific clarification as to how exactly the much slower pace and the increase in pass error and FT fixes the problems you described after the new update. I'm not asking why this set is better than the previous one. I'm asking how is it a solution to the specific issues that you raised about defensive ADD.


And I would really appreciate at the very least a neutral tone. The last two times I provided feedback, it felt like you got angry because you didn't agree with me. If this is how it's going to be from now on, I'd rather we didn't discuss at all. Hopefully, I deserve the same courtesy as everyone else.

Let me start by saying there are opinions where I agree with you, and others which I disagree. But my remarks focus on the right to disagree. If this forum only was about to agree, what is the point ?. A forum should generate debate and sometimes disagreement, and hopefully will The discussion offers a compromise. I'm not defending or attacking anyone here, but its member like you who question things that create these changes, and I'll let Matt answer your excellent post.

[ohvitser12]

Re: FIFA 17 OS Community Sliders

I have used the latest set and the game feels much easier than before.Cpu is not as threatening in attack as they used to, i think it has something to do with that pass speed maybe.

[Matt10]

Re: FIFA 17 OS Community Sliders

Glorious video Matt !. Width 70 = looks like field width exploited to the full. Looks like the First Touch Control by 65/65 has helped some hesitation among the players, and the mistakes seems more (flow) natural. (I wonder what happens if you play league Teams 2?). The game has a better flow with this set slider and better compress - decompress. (Beautiful and icy goal from Henrikh!)

Yeah, it plays well with the lower league teams as well. I use Sheffield United in my CM and the set translates fine, granted more misses on goal and more missed passes - but they look more like miscommunication rather than just blatant giving up of the ball.

Matt I've dropped cpu pass error to 58, reason is I felt they were playing risk less passes all game, dropping it allowed for a bit more hit ball long or across field if they needed to.


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Sure thing, I just grabbed the 60 pass error because that's what we had in Set 2. It's personal preference anyways. I like the idea of more misplaced passes and 60 has always allowed more hesitation and less forward passing, compared to the 50's. I remember in FIFA 14 there was a difference in pass error that determined if a player was going to make the "obvious" pass to a player in a forward position, or they were going to play the safe pass. As the pass error goes higher, the less the CPU player will try those forward passes when someone is well marked.

What do u guys think of this set ? I've just finished playing my 6th game and it's playing great . very happy with this rite now . And the next time they come out with an update I'm unplugging my internet from the ps4 . I'm sick of them F****** it up

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Good luck with that, we have to always roll with these punches. I'm not 100% happy as I liked the previous set, but the lower height and lower marking wouldn't work with it unfortunately.

One must be careful to judge the whole prematurely. But so far I am happy for what I see on the field with the latest values. I love what width 70/70 have done to the game. I can hear the midfield is crucial for Matt, (and it is generally in soccer) difference I see from previous is that it is now compressed and decompressed before the midfield constantly densely populated. Width has made the game well and not least the midfield, but the same applies marking, FT control, Lines.

So what does not work ?.
I personally have a little difficulty with "lightness" of the game, it feels at times as if I play with a softball, or Astronauts who play soccer in space. And at times the game still has problems with positioning, (Should I attack or defend it looks like the players thinking? - Poor positioning) Can also be my bad play style but often see players collide.

Definitely valid because the increased marking + the new patch update in height results in this "indecision" or "over-aggression" from the players off the ball. I like to think of it as their attitude to defend is ramped up quite high. This is where I mean that I'm only "content", as in it's not a perfect simulation, in terms of all positioning are correct and sound to football theories, but it's playable. For instance, you will see your CB meet the attacker at the half-field line, well ahead of the actual midfielders. That indicates that the marking is very high, and it's more man-marking than anything. The problem is if you go too low, you lose that sense of defensive attitude and players walk into middle and defensive thirds with very little resistance. So, picked my poison and would much rather have that CB be on the forward, versus just letting them waltz in.

I hear u . I sometimes still see the stutter dance as I call it . they can't decide what to do . And I was very hesitant to adjust the width to 70,but man is it great . There's always room for improvement. I have no clue when it comes to adjusting the sliders that's why I'm so thankful for Matt and everyone else who takes the time to fix EA's sloppy work . I get the feeling Matt will still make a minor tweak to something . But overall I'm happy with it

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As I recall, when we had tested the width at 70, it was relative to the marking and length chosen. At the time of Set 2, the physicality (i.e. shielding) was still very strong, but the defending players would still let players through easily. When we raised marking and created a height discrepancy, the marking was much better because it allowed the lower run frequency to dictate the path of play. So now you see players gradually getting open, versus bombarding down the field, with no care in the world of whether they receive the ball or not.

Very pleased as well.

Odd thing to me is the 1 point increase in speed actually makes things feel sluggish. I would've thought the opposite would occur.

Loving the higher FT and pass error. Players don't feel anywhere near as "robotic".

Well done, per usual Matt!

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I thought the same thing with the higher sprint. Again, it's personal preference, but it's nice to be able to 1. run with the ball and not worry about my player jogging, and 2. know the CPU won't always start jogging in chasing me down, and vice-versa.

The momentum of the higher sprint, paired with the lower acceleration, should allow more chances for offsides and miscommunication as well.

[Panbot3000]

Re: FIFA 17 OS Community Sliders

I think a major problem with FIFA is that it's too rewarding to charge around the pitch and dispossess the ai. This is made worse by reducing their pass effectiveness as they often won't take risks with passing and prefer instead to just hold onto the ball if you pressure them.

I find this means you either have to be disciplined and stick to your positions (as Matt does) or you have to give yourself a disadvantage in acceleration (I currently use 47/49. It also helps to make the ai pass the ball better if you want more challenge but it won't be as realistic.

Just my input.

Also, I don't think I've posted in this thread so good work Matt

[wizardkellyy]

Re: FIFA 17 OS Community Sliders

Do you guys use the 15 GK ability with manual or assisted shooting? and could Matt or someone show me their full controller and camera settings if possible? thanks.

[adoptedscouse]

Re: FIFA 17 OS Community Sliders

I use semi shooting with 15 GK, I'm crap at manual even after all these years & I find assisted homes in to posts or goalkeeper & nothing else.


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[brendinho58]

Re: FIFA 17 OS Community Sliders

Matt great work as always. Playing much better in midfield.

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[Matt10]

Re: FIFA 17 OS Community Sliders

I don't understand. The issues you are describing in your first video (cheers for the "honorary mention" btw) exist in the second video too.


You can still pass very easily in defense and in early midfield.
The defensive pressure increases only when you have received the ball and the rest of your team are still not being pressed enough.
At times, things do get chaotic (as do in real life).


And the most important thing is that you are playing on default in the first video. Why are you not comparing it to the previous final set? When was default playing well to start now?


What you have done in comparison to the previous final set is slow down the pace, make the CPU pass less accurately, remove the drilled passes, and make both teams struggle more to control the ball (primarily from the air, as pass speed is way down now). Fine. I understand what you've done. But I don't understand why. You never raised fast speed, too accurate passing, too perfect controls as issues. Only the drilled passing has been an issue since day 1 for you (which if fair enough, I fully understand it) but why did drilled passing become an issue now? With the previous final set, it was removed a lot. The latest update has not increased how fast the ball travels. So why decrease pass speed again?


Since my last post (just after the update), I played a whole season. It's true that just after the update there were issues with defensive positioning but as my season progressed, it got a lot better without me making any changes. I saved a video which I will post this evening with some comments and we can compare.


Now, I'm glad everyone likes the new set. By all means, I'm not suggesting anyone to take this as feedback that the set is bad. And I'm not going to discuss again my opinion on why I think such slow CPU pass speed makes the CPU less threatening (every time I mentioned this, my opinion was criticised very negatively so I'm not going to go through this again). But I would appreciate some specific clarification as to how exactly the much slower pace and the increase in pass error and FT fixes the problems you described after the new update. I'm not asking why this set is better than the previous one. I'm asking how is it a solution to the specific issues that you raised about defensive ADD.


And I would really appreciate at the very least a neutral tone. The last two times I provided feedback, it felt like you got angry because you didn't agree with me. If this is how it's going to be from now on, I'd rather we didn't discuss at all. Hopefully, I deserve the same courtesy as everyone else.

Yes, you can still pass fairly easily in the midfield, but at least a body will show up to defend you so it's not as easy to turn.

The premise of the update is that height and marking are affected. Height has been improved in some areas for the defensive line meeting the forwards, but their strength of presence has not. This is why Height had to go higher and marking even higher. The length and width are virtually the same. Keep in mind, I simply copied over values from Set #2 and inputted it into the current version. The TLDR version is that every other combination wasn't working, so I cut my losses here.

Drilled passing has always been an issue. It was an issue at anytime we have pass speed above 35, and the CPU uses it as a priority in their attacks. I got very annoyed by it, so I wanted to remove it, so far the 30 pass speed has lessened it, but still allowed the pace of passes to take on average 3 seconds - which is what I recorded as being accurate for real life matches. However, again, as always you can change that setting to your preference. If you can live with the drilled passing, by all means, enjoy it and raise pass speed to 50.

I don't think I have to list out every single issue, then try to fix each of them, one-by-one. Sorry, noone is paying me to do this and I'm not a developer who can control the outcome of animations. If I mention the existence of an issue, it will just depend on where it ranks in priority of a fix. The overall issue with this update has been a lack of midfield due to the low resistance defensively. Finding that as a goal is not as easy as simply modifying the line settings. As I always say, sliders are relative to eachother. You lower pass speed, that allows the midfield to get back better, you lower run frequency, that allows the man marking to not mark off the pitch, you raise marking, that reduces zone coverage (unfortunately), but keeps the defensive attitude intact. If I had to get a midfield, I raised the marking, now that means I can't keep run frequency at 50 because the high man marking attitude is going to push players out of position because they're chasing players off the ball, thus parting the red sea. Do you (anyone, not just you) see how the line of thinking aligns here?

I can explain all that, but I'm not going to do it unless someone requests it. Which is kind of what you did, so there's your answer. The depths in which sliders work could take up a couple pages on its own. This is why the video that's on OP is almost an hour long, and that's broken down value by value.

Regarding CPU being a threat with a lower pass speed, I mean I provided the video on the previous page, and here are the match facts:



The point of that is that you can't isolate a value and say that is why things are the way they are. Sliders are relative to eachother, unless one of them affects an animation (like Sprint affecting jogging animation, etc).

[Matt10]

Re: FIFA 17 OS Community Sliders

I think a major problem with FIFA is that it's too rewarding to charge around the pitch and dispossess the ai. This is made worse by reducing their pass effectiveness as they often won't take risks with passing and prefer instead to just hold onto the ball if you pressure them.

I find this means you either have to be disciplined and stick to your positions (as Matt does) or you have to give yourself a disadvantage in acceleration (I currently use 47/49. It also helps to make the ai pass the ball better if you want more challenge but it won't be as realistic.

Just my input.

Also, I don't think I've posted in this thread so good work Matt

Thanks, man.

I think the thought of pass speed being a CPU disadvantage is misleading. If you think about it, count how many times the CPU chooses drilled passing over a regular pass. Now count how many times a user chooses this option. The numbers don't match, because a user is more likely going to use short pass forward, and most of the time will use drilled pass to switch the opposite side of the pitch. The CPU, instead, chooses to make a 5 yard pass, with the drilled pass function, and continues to do so once on each possession.

So, keeping in mind that they are going to use it anyways, the pass speed at 30 simply allows them to make a "true" 50 pass speed on their drilled passing.

I will agree, however, with the fact it's easier to tackle the CPU when the pass speed is lowered. This is because they are waiting for the ball to reach their feet, and it gives the user more time to recover. I think this is a good thing compared to default, but can see how it makes it feel easier in some areas if you anticipate your defensive aggression on the CPU.

[adoptedscouse]

FIFA 17 OS Community Sliders

So I plugged the OP set back in again just to remind myself why we have changed the sliders after update.

I was surprised with no ADD, however every cpu ball was hard driven down field & just about everyone bombed down into box.

The defenders weren't as dumb as I remember, but they also would not put a tackle in, so all in all, this new set is a lot better with the update.

Only thing I can't settle on is 51 or 50 sprint [emoji848]

PS Matt, do you have any good Madden sliders I can use, I'm crap at that game & there are a eleventybillion to choose from on that forum I have no idea where to start [emoji6]


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[KingKO92]

Re: FIFA 17 OS Community Sliders

PS Matt, do you have any good Madden sliders I can use, I'm crap at that game & there are a eleventybillion to choose from on that forum I have no idea where to start [emoji6]


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Joshc's are good (if he's still doing them). If not then Flazko

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[andanesean]

Re: FIFA 17 OS Community Sliders

So right now Matt vs Sarezar well 1-1, Trying to make a (bad) joke. The point for me is that you both have some truths and false in my understanding of EA's FIFA. My advice would be to work together and contributed with all the knowledge you have, instead of to convince each other and especially this forum who is right. Thank you for your huge contribution, keep up the good work.

[Sarezar]

Re: FIFA 17 OS Community Sliders

Thank you for the detailed response Matt. I understand and agree why you wouldn't explain every little thing unless someone asks for it - it's just that you expressed very strong feelings about the recent update and was expecting more of an analysis rather than saying "here's a new set". I also think the lack of comparing your new set to the previous final set created more questions.




I would ask everyone who is interested and has the time to watch at least some if not the full of the videos I pasted below. (I had to split the two halves cause PS4 doesn't recognise my YouTube account as virified for some reason).


This is all on default, all manual, Legendary and 10 min halves (as I show in the video before the start).


Please note the following:
- I am playing against a weaker team, yet the CPU are marking really well.
- The CPU starts better than me while pressing low on the pitch.
- In the 18' notice how the CPU changes pressure and start pressing really high. That's when I start being a bit more dangerous with counterattacks (even thuogh my team is relatively stronger)
- Notice in the 22' when I charging on a counter and the second from last defender follows me perfectly to intercept with a tackle
- Also please notice how high my defensive line is even though I am playing on default. That's because I have set Pressure to 75 in CTT, which is why I keep saying the slider is important but can be altered significantly by the CTT.
- Notice width being quite narrow. I have deliberately left my team's CTT width to 50. Nevertheless, both teams are keeping their lines very well.
- This is well in a season and my team are coming from 5 consecutive wins, so the CPu are playing slightly better than you would expect from a team like Arouca.


1st half: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNpzj0DPK-A
2nd half: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGu73yYiTHw




What I'm trying to prove here is this:
- My experience with the game after the latest patch doesn't reflect the concerns that were raised here, as long as you play a bit into the season. Things always feel strange after a patch, then the game settles down (I don't know why)
- I have deliberately played on default to show that the issues aren't that big on default, so the previous final set plays even better! (The drilled pass is an issue for those who don't like it, but we had toned it down in the last set)
- I also wanted to show how CTT affects lines and why I keep saying that just having the sliders as a baseline is perfectly fine as long as inform people that CTT is also important and has to be taken into account.




PS. I personally feel that the previous final set (and any slight modifications to it) still work very well after the last update. Having said that, it's still very interesting to hear everyone's opinions.


PS2. It would be best not to call the developers names. We can't complain that they "never listen to us" and then call them names when we strongly disagree with a decision they've made. I agree that drilled passing doesn't work well at all in th game. But players in real life do drilled passing. We can suggest that default pass speed is toned down (which we can do with the sliders anyway) but more importantly suggest that drilled passing increases the chance for inaccurate passes and bad FT control without us having to alter the Pass Error and FT sliders. Developers tend to ignore aggresive feedback even if it makes perfect sense.

[ohvitser12]

Re: FIFA 17 OS Community Sliders

Thank you for the detailed response Matt. I understand and agree why you wouldn't explain every little thing unless someone asks for it - it's just that you expressed very strong feelings about the recent update and was expecting more of an analysis rather than saying "here's a new set". I also think the lack of comparing your new set to the previous final set created more questions.




I would ask everyone who is interested and has the time to watch at least some if not the full of the videos I pasted below. (I had to split the two halves cause PS4 doesn't recognise my YouTube account as virified for some reason).


This is all on default, all manual, Legendary and 10 min halves (as I show in the video before the start).


Please note the following:
- I am playing against a weaker team, yet the CPU are marking really well.
- The CPU starts better than me while pressing low on the pitch.
- In the 18' notice how the CPU changes pressure and start pressing really high. That's when I start being a bit more dangerous with counterattacks (even thuogh my team is relatively stronger)
- Notice in the 22' when I charging on a counter and the second from last defender follows me perfectly to intercept with a tackle
- Also please notice how high my defensive line is even though I am playing on default. That's because I have set Pressure to 75 in CTT, which is why I keep saying the slider is important but can be altered significantly by the CTT.
- Notice width being quite narrow. I have deliberately left my team's CTT width to 50. Nevertheless, both teams are keeping their lines very well.
- This is well in a season and my team are coming from 5 consecutive wins, so the CPu are playing slightly better than you would expect from a team like Arouca.


1st half: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNpzj0DPK-A
2nd half: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGu73yYiTHw




What I'm trying to prove here is this:
- My experience with the game after the latest patch doesn't reflect the concerns that were raised here, as long as you play a bit into the season. Things always feel strange after a patch, then the game settles down (I don't know why)
- I have deliberately played on default to show that the issues aren't that big on default, so the previous final set plays even better! (The drilled pass is an issue for those who don't like it, but we had toned it down in the last set)
- I also wanted to show how CTT affects lines and why I keep saying that just having the sliders as a baseline is perfectly fine as long as inform people that CTT is also important and has to be taken into account.




PS. I personally feel that the previous final set (and any slight modifications to it) still work very well after the last update. Having said that, it's still very interesting to hear everyone's opinions.


PS2. It would be best not to call the developers names. We can't complain that they "never listen to us" and then call them names when we strongly disagree with a decision they've made. I agree that drilled passing doesn't work well at all in th game. But players in real life do drilled passing. We can suggest that default pass speed is toned down (which we can do with the sliders anyway) but more importantly suggest that drilled passing increases the chance for inaccurate passes and bad FT control without us having to alter the Pass Error and FT sliders. Developers tend to ignore aggresive feedback even if it makes perfect sense.

Where i can get that last set we used before that current one from Matt.I think i liked it better also