***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

[Suntan Superman]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

Are we still a club that gets a world class replacement for Wenger? Would the board pay a man like Carlo Ancelotti? Or are we actually Eddie Howe's next stop? Are we going to hire someone and instantly realize that while he's not a bad manager, he just doesn't fit in at the club? I don't know the answer to any of these questions anymore.

[RoyceDa59]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

Are we still a club that gets a world class replacement for Wenger? Would the board pay a man like Carlo Ancelotti? Or are we actually Eddie Howe's next stop? Are we going to hire someone and instantly realize that while he's not a bad manager, he just doesn't fit in at the club? I don't know the answer to any of these questions anymore.

I don't think even Wenger even knows what is going to happen lol.

[Brahvocado]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

Are we still a club that gets a world class replacement for Wenger? Would the board pay a man like Carlo Ancelotti? Or are we actually Eddie Howe's next stop? Are we going to hire someone and instantly realize that while he's not a bad manager, he just doesn't fit in at the club? I don't know the answer to any of these questions anymore.

Yeah, the problem is that there are two different classes of "up-and-coming" managers. The "very hyped but not actually very good" category is where people like Howe and Tuchel belong, and unfortunately I think your board is dumb enough to go down that road.

As far as Carlo, I mean he's been everywhere else. You guys could afford him if you wanted to.

[ZeroTheHero]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

Not sure which annoys me the most of the pessimism of Arsenal fans right now or the unrealistic optimism of Liverpool fans. Arsenal will bounce back and most likely very quickly, with or without Wenger. I think it will go quicker with Wenger, though.

Good luck.

[Suntan Superman]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

Bounce back into the UCL or into actually being a title challenger? I'm more interested in the second, and it's been a long time for Wenger to even put us in contention for the league.

[ZeroTheHero]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

Title challenge is difficult for everyone because you almost need a season worth of freaky luck in addition to 22 world class players. This season Chelsea was rock solid and lucky, Spurs were the swashbuckler and everything else were pretty "normal" premier league behavior.

[Krebstar]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

As far as Carlo, I mean he's been everywhere else. You guys could afford him if you wanted to.

He's my absolute first choice if anything could happen. Bring him in for a few years to steady the ship during the change the club will be going through and he'd leave us in great shape when he left.

Doubt it would happen.

[Brahvocado]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

Title challenge is difficult for everyone because you almost need a season worth of freaky luck in addition to 22 world class players. This season Chelsea was rock solid and lucky, Spurs were the swashbuckler and everything else were pretty "normal" premier league behavior.

Freaky luck sort of implies the luck aspect of a title challenge is the most important part. It's definitely there, in every title charge, but over 38 games it's really only a small piece of the puzzle.

You definitely don't need 22 world class players, I can't think of a single club that has that many players who could be considered world class. We've only got a handful.

[ZeroTheHero]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

You definitely don't need 22 world class players, I can't think of a single club that has that many players who could be considered world class. We've only got a handful.

That depends how you define "world class". In my opinion Messi is a level or two above "world class", while players like Willian, Özil and Eriksen are world class. But to use a more recognizable term, you need a full squad of the second/third best players in order to challenge for the title. You could use Leicester as an argument against such ideas, but they didn't play any other major tournaments and they can be the exception that confirms the rule.

Besides, luck is more than a small piece of the puzzle. Some luck you create yourself by being good, but some luck is just freaky and it has to do with everything from injuries to hitting the inside of the post for a goal rather than outside of the post for a goal kick. Having results going your way at critical moments in the season also brings good morale and spirit to the squad. There were several clubs capable of challenging Chelsea and Spurs on paper, this season. So these things matters a whole lot.

[Brahvocado]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

That depends how you define "world class". In my opinion Messi is a level or two above "world class", while players like Willian, Özil and Eriksen are world class.

I love Willian but he is definitely not an Ozil level player, neither is Eriksen. Yes, Eriksen has been better than Ozil this season but honestly only a Spurs fan would put him on the same level as a 25 assist-per-season World Cup winner.

Ozil is underperforming in a team of underperformers, but he is still one of the best playmakers in the world. If you dropped him into a good team with an actual plan people would be reminded how good Ozil is.

The only players at Chelsea I'd classify as world class are Hazard, Costa, Cesc, Dave, Kante and Tbo. Luiz, Pedro and Matic are probably borderline but not quite on the level of the previous group.

As you said, it depends on your definition of world class, and everyone is going to have slightly different criteria. I just think that if Eriksen and Willian satisfy your criteria for world class then yours are very generous.

[Krebstar]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

Ozil is underperforming in a team of underperformers, but he is still one of the best playmakers in the world. If you dropped him into a good team with an actual plan people would be reminded how good Ozil is.

I've always assumed this will happen. He'll inevitably leave, finally have people scoring goals off the chances he creates, feel motivated to play due to a different manager/squad/club attitude, and win several trophies.

He's wasting this portion of his career at this version of Arsenal.

[Suntan Superman]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

I'm probably the biggest Eriksen fanboy here and I wouldn't call him World Class.


He's no Nicklas Bendtner, that's for sure.

[ZeroTheHero]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

Eriksen has been better than Ozil this season but honestly only a Spurs fan would put him on the same level as a 25 assist-per-season World Cup winner.

Premier League comparison

Mesut Özil
13/14 - 10 assists 5 goals
14/15 - 5 assists 4 goals
15/16 - 19 assists 6 goals
16/17 - 9 assists 8 goals
43 assists and 23 goals in 113 starts (4 subs).
https://www.statbunker.com/players/G...-1&comps_id=-1

Christian Eriksen
13/14 - 9 assists 7 goals
14/15 - 2 assists 10 goals
15/16 - 13 assists 6 goals
16/17 - 15 assists 8 goals
39 assists and 31 goals in 129 starts (10 subs).
https://www.statbunker.com/players/G...EPL&dates=2009

We've not even mentioned the difference in work rate and effort put in by the players, which clearly points in Eriksen's direction. Also worth noting that Arsenal has beaten Spurs in all but the most recent season, but the two players are still quite clearly equal across the board in terms of end product. Sucks when your feelings doesn't correllate with the facts. :P

PS. Being a world cup winner is actually completely irrelevant. Bale will never win the world cup, that doesn't make him any less of a football player. Neither will Eriksen and many other former and future greats.

[Suntan Superman]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

Özil with a proper finisher is something crazy to think about.

[ZeroTheHero]

Re: ***The Official Arsenal Gunners" Thread***

Eriksen had Soldado to work with for two seasons...