The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

[stlducks]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

I thought the ref and Willy were woefully out of position for most of the match

I think the announcers were being very harsh on Willy for Eriksens goal. He was playing too deep but sometimes there are shots you can't really do anything about.

In order of poor performances today I'd say ref, nbc crew, Willy, Lloris were the worst.

[Brahvocado]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

I admit Spurs, like every team have gotten away with fouls. It just grows tiring how that's the first thing everyone mentions after a game, deserved or not. It's almost like a "boy cries wolf" instance now.

I think Verts and Lamela should have been given yellows but the ref was letting everything go today.

As for the handball, I'm not an expert on the handball rules but I don't think that's a penalty. He was falling and his hand hit it in a way that didn't look intentional at all.

I think it's probably just that it could seem to Spurs fans that people are saying you don't deserve your results due to the fouls etc.

We were garbage today and you deserved the win, you also deserved the draw vs Liverpool.

Part of my annoyance is just because Hazard gets the absolute crap kicked out of him every game and it largely goes unpunished, he's the most fouled player by an absolutely jaw-dropping margin. That foul by Vertonghen wasn't even called, which is my biggest issue. If that gets called and Vertonghen gets a yellow and a talking to, then maybe I wouldn't be as mad, but the fact that a ref saw that happen and didn't even think it was a foul is ludicrous. I would imagine Spurs fans would at least have a little sympathy, since Dele has been one of the top 3-5 most fouled players in the league since he joined.

Anyway, we are going to have to disagree on Lamela. He is just a very dirty player, and he specifically targets Cesc literally every time we play you guys. He even low-key drags his knee into Cesc's head as he's walking away rofl. I actually end up watching a lot of Spurs games, because sadly my wife is a Spurs fan. Lamela does questionable stuff pretty regularly, my wife is usually on edge the whole time he's on the pitch because she is afraid he will get himself sent off.

I've played soccer my whole life, and I have played against guys like Lamela plenty of times as an adult. Of course there is no way to really prove intent, especially if you are a professional athlete that is good at hiding it, but I've been around the game and guys like that long enough to know he PROBABLY knew what he was doing during that entire incident.

Anyway, that was not an ideal result.

[ZeroTheHero]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

I think it's probably just that it could seem to Spurs fans that people are saying you don't deserve your results due to the fouls etc.

When it's the first thing (and main thing) mentioned match after match, it sure as hell doesn't just "seem like it". But then again, everyone does it because the fact that the TV productions focus on replays of tackles and situations equally as much as chances and goals which makes these situations very visible... and everyone has an opinion.

Part of my annoyance is just because Hazard gets the absolute crap kicked out of him every game and it largely goes unpunished, he's the most fouled player by an absolutely jaw-dropping margin.

If it were only true, but I guess that's bias in action.

http://www.sportbible.com/football/foul-play-top-10s-the-most-fouled-premier-league-player-of-2017-18-is-sure-to-surprise-20180205

Article from february, but the stats hasn't changed that much since then.

That foul by Vertonghen wasn't even called, which is my biggest issue. If that gets called and Vertonghen gets a yellow and a talking to, then maybe I wouldn't be as mad, but the fact that a ref saw that happen and didn't even think it was a foul is ludicrous. I would imagine Spurs fans would at least have a little sympathy, since Dele has been one of the top 3-5 most fouled players in the league since he joined.

Good players will get fouled and the best players power through anyway. Look at Maradona and Messi. Alli is struggling and so is Hazard.

Anyway, we are going to have to disagree on Lamela. He is just a very dirty player, and he specifically targets Cesc literally every time we play you guys. He even low-key drags his knee into Cesc's head as he's walking away rofl. I actually end up watching a lot of Spurs games, because sadly my wife is a Spurs fan. Lamela does questionable stuff pretty regularly, my wife is usually on edge the whole time he's on the pitch because she is afraid he will get himself sent off.

Oh the salt and the bias. It's like a symphony. Compared to John Terry, Lamela is a saint.

I've played soccer my whole life, and I have played against guys like Lamela plenty of times as an adult. Of course there is no way to really prove intent, especially if you are a professional athlete that is good at hiding it, but I've been around the game and guys like that long enough to know he PROBABLY knew what he was doing during that entire incident.

Not the most convincing case of Ethos and Pathos I've ever seen, but for the gullible it looks convincing enough.

Anyway, that was not an ideal result.

No, for Chelsea it wasn't. The gap up might be too big now seeing the current form of Liverpool and Tottenham. I'd prefer Chelsea above Liverpool but that's just an opinion.

[KG]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

I think the announcers were being very harsh on Willy for Eriksens goal. He was playing too deep but sometimes there are shots you can't really do anything about.

In order of poor performances today I'd say ref, nbc crew, Willy, Lloris were the worst.

Easily a great strike by Eriksen (as was the first one he hit) but all Willy has to do is literally put his hands up. Sure he might he tip it up into the net but at least he's making an attempt. I can sympathize with keepers who get rooted to the spot when the ball is coming in at an angle but the shot was literally right at him. The dip was nasty but just put your hands up.

The first Alli goal was poor keeping 101. Sure the ball over-the-top was also defending 101 but you gotta get off your line and make yourself big. Thibo's pretty bad at reading the game too in situations like this but an aggressive keeper at least throws off the attacker and makes him think about getting clattered.

As for the match, Spurs are the better side. Much more balanced with a better system. We've been exposed all year in the midfield and our manager continues to do everything possible to get himself fired before the season is out. I wouldn't be surprised or unhappy if he was let go this week.

[Brahvocado]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

If it were only true, but I guess that's bias in action.

http://www.sportbible.com/football/foul-play-top-10s-the-most-fouled-premier-league-player-of-2017-18-is-sure-to-surprise-20180205

Article from february, but the stats hasn't changed that much since then.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-5375165/Chelsea-star-Hazard-fouled-500-times.html#ixzz56hv7lwrM

I wasn't talking about just this season, but even from a Spurs fan I am actually pretty surprised anyone would take immediate offense to somebody pointing out Hazard is the most fouled player.

Also, while Hazard's numbers are down this season, he has played far fewer minutes than the rest of the players above him on that list you linked, so he is still likely being fouled more because his "fouls received per minute" is going to be higher.

Anyway, part of the beauty of this board is that despite bias and the like, everyone is typically able to put it aside for the sake of discussion, and nobody ever really resorts to the whole "dismissing every negative thing said about their team as salty/haters/bias".

You do this, however, which is why people here give you far more crap than the rest of the posters.

[ZeroTheHero]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

You do this, however, which is why people here give you far more crap than the rest of the posters.

Bring it on. I don't mind.

[Brahvocado]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

Bring it on. I don't mind.

I'm not really surprised that this was your takeaway from what I said, but you did definitely miss the point I was making.

[ZeroTheHero]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

I'm not really surprised that this was your takeaway from what I said, but you did definitely miss the point I was making.

I understood your opinion perfectly.

[stlducks]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

I think it's probably just that it could seem to Spurs fans that people are saying you don't deserve your results due to the fouls etc.

We were garbage today and you deserved the win, you also deserved the draw vs Liverpool.

Part of my annoyance is just because Hazard gets the absolute crap kicked out of him every game and it largely goes unpunished, he's the most fouled player by an absolutely jaw-dropping margin. That foul by Vertonghen wasn't even called, which is my biggest issue. If that gets called and Vertonghen gets a yellow and a talking to, then maybe I wouldn't be as mad, but the fact that a ref saw that happen and didn't even think it was a foul is ludicrous. I would imagine Spurs fans would at least have a little sympathy, since Dele has been one of the top 3-5 most fouled players in the league since he joined.

Anyway, we are going to have to disagree on Lamela. He is just a very dirty player, and he specifically targets Cesc literally every time we play you guys. He even low-key drags his knee into Cesc's head as he's walking away rofl. I actually end up watching a lot of Spurs games, because sadly my wife is a Spurs fan. Lamela does questionable stuff pretty regularly, my wife is usually on edge the whole time he's on the pitch because she is afraid he will get himself sent off.

I've played soccer my whole life, and I have played against guys like Lamela plenty of times as an adult. Of course there is no way to really prove intent, especially if you are a professional athlete that is good at hiding it, but I've been around the game and guys like that long enough to know he PROBABLY knew what he was doing during that entire incident.

Anyway, that was not an ideal result.

Sounds like your wife and I have the same mindset of Lamela. I'm one of the few Spurs fans I know that really doesn't care for him and I think he dirty.

[stlducks]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

Easily a great strike by Eriksen (as was the first one he hit) but all Willy has to do is literally put his hands up. Sure he might he tip it up into the net but at least he's making an attempt. I can sympathize with keepers who get rooted to the spot when the ball is coming in at an angle but the shot was literally right at him. The dip was nasty but just put your hands up.

The first Alli goal was poor keeping 101. Sure the ball over-the-top was also defending 101 but you gotta get off your line and make yourself big. Thibo's pretty bad at reading the game too in situations like this but an aggressive keeper at least throws off the attacker and makes him think about getting clattered.

As for the match, Spurs are the better side. Much more balanced with a better system. We've been exposed all year in the midfield and our manager continues to do everything possible to get himself fired before the season is out. I wouldn't be surprised or unhappy if he was let go this week.

You think he might be let go even though they have a chance to win the FA cup? I was thinking that might be the only thing keeping him around this season.

[Brahvocado]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

You think he might be let go even though they have a chance to win the FA cup? I was thinking that might be the only thing keeping him around this season.

Never underestimate a man who sacked Carlo Ancelotti in the tunnel of Goodison Park.

[ZeroTheHero]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

Lamela is so dirty, according to some people, that it called for an investigation. He's got the impressive amount of 0.17 yellow cards per match in all competitions since he joined Spurs. No red cards at all.
https://www.statbunker.com/players/g...layer_id=38479


As a comparison, Fabregas has 0.21 yellow cards per match during his time with Chelsea in addition to two red cards. Is he dirty too?
https://www.statbunker.com/players/g...layer_id=18214


Base your opinions on facts rather than feelings. Feelings are biased, facts aren't.

[stlducks]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

Lamela is so dirty, according to some people, that it called for an investigation. He's got the impressive amount of 0.17 yellow cards per match in all competitions since he joined Spurs. No red cards at all.
https://www.statbunker.com/players/g...layer_id=38479


As a comparison, Fabregas has 0.21 yellow cards per match during his time with Chelsea in addition to two red cards. Is he dirty too?
https://www.statbunker.com/players/g...layer_id=18214

I don't want to turn this thread into a Spurs debate as we have a thread for that but one last comment on Lamela.

Just because he's not awarded a card, doesn't mean he's not dirty in ways. He often does cheap shots that are not called and is also a big flopper, which I hate.

He's been better since coming back from his hip injury but he used to be very bad at it.

Lamela is also a physical player and loves to slide into a challenge. Which isn't a bad thing at all but when it's mixed in with his dirty antics like yesterday, I can see why others think he's dirty.

[ZeroTheHero]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

He often does cheap shots that are not called and is also a big flopper, which I hate.

21 goals and 31 assists in 145 matches isn't really what I would call a "big flopper". He's provided a goal or assist for every 3rd match he's been involved with. He's not a striker.

Facts over feelings, that's all I'm saying.

EDIT: Christian Eriksen, who is considered "epic" has 0.53 goal/assist ratio per match. Lamela has 0.43. Stats aren't everything, but they are a lot.

[stlducks]

Re: The 2017-2018 EPL Discussion Thread

21 goals and 31 assists in 145 matches isn't really what I would call a "big flopper". He's provided a goal or assist for every 3rd match he's been involved with. He's not a striker.

Facts over feelings, that's all I'm saying.

Flopper as in someone who dives..