0 awr and defense still kills it in cfm?

[khaliib]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ampking101

I think the issue is less about that the ratings seem to not matter but more so the lack of transparency or confirmation from the game developers about what things in the game effect what. Still to this day we don't know what exactly penalty sliders actually effect (yes they finally make penalties happen more or less this year but in Madden's past they have often also had a clear impact on the gameplay itself, and in some iterations seemingly more so than the user or cpu sliders do) Why have we never had confirmation or explanation on why this is the case and what exactly they do or if it is a placebo effect (all we have left to do is speculate)? It's the same with awareness and play recognition. We have been told that they do have a purpose but no confirmation on exactly how they work; we are left to speculate and to confirm speculation you run tests and discuss. The problem really stems from us not knowing what the dice rolls that effect everything really are. We know that there are obvious contenders but we don't know what all is in play (which wouldn't be a problem if we weren't given the ability to edit the game and expected to figure out what everything did for ourselves for the most part). This game is certainly better than it has been in awhile in some areas (but certainly a lot worse in other areas). Which I understand that it is a lot more difficult to make a football game than almost any other sports game (the fact that you have 22 players all doing very different things, you have the oline blocking, and you have receivers running routes and catching, you also have runningbacks weaving through said blocking schemes, and then you have a quarterback throwing the ball and that is just on offense, let alone the coding for blocking and blitzing schemes, coverage mechanics, catching mechanics vs DB reaction mechanics), the game really is a lot harder to code than most any other sports game. That said, why don't we get confirmation of things like if home field advantage still exists, how exactly the momentum system works, how exactly blocking schemes are effected by sliders, what penalty sliders do, if sliders have any effect on simulating games, etc.? Therefore we are left to speculate to try to figure these things out ourselves so that we can, in the long run make this game more enjoyable to ourselves, or even possibly try to point out what is wrong so maybe, just maybe they can fix it in the next few iterations. We are left with one game to get our football fix, we have and try to use the tools we have and then have discussion with others to see what power we have over the game and how to improve it and to see what we do and don't have control over. I think it's hard for some people to not bash the game sometimes when this game is the only outlet we have and it in some rights is very broken in certain areas. That said I could be wrong (and please correct me if I am), I would wager, this is the point of the conversation. Not simply bashing the game to bash it. Ratings do matter in the game (65 catch will certainly have a different outcome than 90 catch) I don't think anyone will dispute that, but to the point in which it matters and at what point it is overruled by another mechanic and by what exactly that mechanic is, is indeed a viable question. Also in this case what exactly do ratings play in simulating games, or if it even effects them at all or if indeed it is trait based, or even another mechanic in play entirely that is hidden to us, the player base.

Amp, my response to your notations (not that they're right or wrong) is that that type of explanatory level is pretty much near the "programming" level and "no" game developer is going to explain at such a level. Just not going to happen!!!

I know I've come across information in the game save I'm not suppose to have access to, so I'm mindful/careful about what I post, while at the same time trying to provide some insight of how some things "function" in the game.

I've always been a "Ratings" guy and trying to understand how they function in the game, so that I can edit them (since that's what we have access to do on the front end) to achieve the gameplay in looking for.
Others like to take the Slider route.

Here is the latest functionality of the "Stiff Arm" rating I just learned.

QB/RB/WR/TE in the draft class are generated with this rating up to 80'ish, while default rosters have guys rated real low (outside of RB's).

It's being generated at these levels, so there is some direct gameplay impact occurring.
EA's definition explains that it is used to "Break Away" from tacklers, key words being "break away".
Sure enough, as it is increased, both Hum/AI ball carriers will out run defenders more so than doing s stiff arm animation.

This is the speed mechanism for the offensive side, just as Pursuit is the mechanism for the defensive side.

What should or shouldn't is irrelevant with the game currently playing on my console.
I've just found gameplay to be more enjoyable by taking the information and move forward, rather than use it to make a point against Madden.

It really does come down to what side of the tracks a gamer chooses to walk on dealing with the game.

Another misunderstood area of functionality, are the infamous "S/M/D Throw Accuracy" ratings.

Ever wonder why you deep throws tend to sail out of bounds when you press the stick towards the outside shoulder?
- key words are "Press The Stick".

These ratings are simply an extended functionality of the "Pass Lead" mechanism in relation to the stick.
- that's why deep passes sail out of bounds, because the rating is much lower than Short and Medium making the stick sensitivity greater.
- set them all to "0" and watch how you can throw the ball anywhere in relation to the direction you move the stick.
- on short throws at "0", pressing down will throw the ball straight into the ground.

The ratings directly impact the functionality of the "Pass Lead Sensitivity" of the stick, there by, indirectly affecting the perceived throw accuracy of the Hum player.
- press the WR button only and the pass goes directly to the "A to B catch-point".
- touch the stick and the ball begins to travel away from the "catch-point", with the ratings applying a greater/lesser sensitivity to the stick direction, there by, giving the perception of inaccurate throws by the Hum player.
- at "100", it's the same as just pressing the button with no regards to how/where you press the stick.

The functionality of these ratings is "Stick Sensitivity"!!!

Both Hum/AI QB accuracy are driven by the functionality of the "Special Catch" rating which I came across one of EA's definition defining it as the ability of a WR to "Reach" for a pass.
- Reach as in "Catch Radius"
- this why when set under "70", the "out-of-reach" animation is triggered more often.

The issues why this animation isn't trigger at a greater extent is due to...
1) this rating being set high in default roster as well as the range set just as high in the Draft Class Generator.
2) to trigger and showcase the marketed "WR vs DB" in-air interactions regularly.

This odd functionality follows true with many other ratings as well.
Whether this makes sense or not, this is how they function in the game.
One can take it and work with it, or use it to note why they don't like the game or EA to be more exact.

I would agree and say continued "Tuning" of the ratings functionality is needed, but CFM can be enjoyed if you start to see how things work.

[khaliib]

Quote: Originally Posted by UFCMPunk

Ok so after I raised the AWR of every offensive player to 99 AND the Play Recog to 99 of the defense on the Broncos, the results were this. It does seem that once again we can fix CFM issues if we could edit within. Peyton Manning threw for 48 TDs, CJ Anderson ran for 18 TDs, Denver had the number one defense in the league. Essentially, we need someone to come up with a scale for the right amount of AWR and Play Recg for each player pending their elite, great players, good, etc. Then like I said it's a temporary fix for people who play one year of CFM since we can't edit the incoming draft classes.

Such a scale is already established and currently being used with in CFM.
These are my notes for Elite levels of WR/DB's.
There are ranges for Good, Base and Poor levels also.

[4thQtrStre5S]

Slightly off topic question, but I didn't want to start a whole knew thread for a simple question, and since there is talk of ratings, I have a question on the subject - Have there been a change in that there appears to be fewer players stacked in the 90's range than previous iterations of the game, including even early rosters in M16?

[Mattanite]

Quote: Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S

Slightly off topic question, but I didn't want to start a whole knew thread for a simple question, and since there is talk of ratings, I have a question on the subject - Have there been a change in that there appears to be fewer players stacked in the 90's range than previous iterations of the game, including even early rosters in M16?

Quite off topic and could've been asked in the Q/A thread. However, it's a shift away from the Donny Moore era of ratings and more in line with the MUT ratings and probably prepares peoples minds (from going crazy) if they introduce ratings more akin to the FBG ratings.

[4thQtrStre5S]

Quote: Originally Posted by Geodude

Quite off topic and could've been asked in the Q/A thread. However, it's a shift away from the Donny Moore era of ratings and more in line with the MUT ratings and probably prepares peoples minds (from going crazy) if they introduce ratings more akin to the FBG ratings.

It is off topic, yes, and I would have put it in the Q&A thread except for the fact that that thread is so big, questions get lost easily.

Thank you for the informative response..

[bigd51]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ampking101

I think the issue is less about that the ratings seem to not matter but more so the lack of transparency or confirmation from the game developers about what things in the game effect what. Still to this day we don't know what exactly penalty sliders actually effect (yes they finally make penalties happen more or less this year but in Madden's past they have often also had a clear impact on the gameplay itself, and in some iterations seemingly more so than the user or cpu sliders do) Why have we never had confirmation or explanation on why this is the case and what exactly they do or if it is a placebo effect (all we have left to do is speculate)? It's the same with awareness and play recognition. We have been told that they do have a purpose but no confirmation on exactly how they work; we are left to speculate and to confirm speculation you run tests and discuss. The problem really stems from us not knowing what the dice rolls that effect everything really are. We know that there are obvious contenders but we don't know what all is in play (which wouldn't be a problem if we weren't given the ability to edit the game and expected to figure out what everything did for ourselves for the most part). This game is certainly better than it has been in awhile in some areas (but certainly a lot worse in other areas). Which I understand that it is a lot more difficult to make a football game than almost any other sports game (the fact that you have 22 players all doing very different things, you have the oline blocking, and you have receivers running routes and catching, you also have runningbacks weaving through said blocking schemes, and then you have a quarterback throwing the ball and that is just on offense, let alone the coding for blocking and blitzing schemes, coverage mechanics, catching mechanics vs DB reaction mechanics), the game really is a lot harder to code than most any other sports game. That said, why don't we get confirmation of things like if home field advantage still exists, how exactly the momentum system works, how exactly blocking schemes are effected by sliders, what penalty sliders do, if sliders have any effect on simulating games, etc.? Therefore we are left to speculate to try to figure these things out ourselves so that we can, in the long run make this game more enjoyable to ourselves, or even possibly try to point out what is wrong so maybe, just maybe they can fix it in the next few iterations. We are left with one game to get our football fix, we have and try to use the tools we have and then have discussion with others to see what power we have over the game and how to improve it and to see what we do and don't have control over. I think it's hard for some people to not bash the game sometimes when this game is the only outlet we have and it in some rights is very broken in certain areas. That said I could be wrong (and please correct me if I am), I would wager, this is the point of the conversation. Not simply bashing the game to bash it. Ratings do matter in the game (65 catch will certainly have a different outcome than 90 catch) I don't think anyone will dispute that, but to the point in which it matters and at what point it is overruled by another mechanic and by what exactly that mechanic is, is indeed a viable question. Also in this case what exactly do ratings play in simulating games, or if it even effects them at all or if indeed it is trait based, or even another mechanic in play entirely that is hidden to us, the player base.

You took the words straight out of my keyboard. I know, for me, it's exactly the lack of transparency that is so frustrating.

Coaching schemes and player styles have been in the game, affecting player ratings and gameplay, since '12, I believe... and people are just now starting to notice them and asking questions about what they do. 2 or 3 years now, and no words from the devs about what exactly they affect or that they even exist to begin with. They just bury it somewhere in CFM and leave it up to us to find them and figure out what they do. I even remember back then searching all over trying to get explanations on them and I couldn't find a thing, anywhere, and no one seemed to even know what I was talking about.

Sometimes I wonder, with the constant change in creative direction the past couple of years leading to a slew of haphazard additions and subtractions, if even the current devs know how to answer most of these questions, themselves. Hell, khaliib (if I'm remembering a past thread correctly) had to dig into the game coding to get all the info on die rolls, sliders, ratings, and all sorts of stuff the devs could've easily just told us themselves. Then we find out Rating A is modified by Rating B, while both are modified by some other behind the curtains coding that can additionally be modified by purchasing Trait A? It all seems unnecessarily complicated.

I will say this, though... what with Rex calling out CFM and expressing his indignation towards players who abuse the Agg Catch by throwing bombs every play, I do feel a little more transparency coming from him than I've seen from others and that does slightly turn my hopes for Madden back upwards. But I, like many others have said before, feel '17 will be a make or break year for the current direction of CFM. If huge, positive changes are made then there may just be hope yet for the mode and they may win me back as a pre-order customer.

However, if they only make insignificant tweaks and throw in a feature like Drive Goals that literally nobody asked for, then it will seem apparent that CFM is dead in the water as a priority going forward and consequently, I'll be officially done with Madden. No hate, just over it. I have better things to do and buy than spend my money on a poorly-programmed football game heavily geared toward their Micro-Uber-Transactions mode.

[bigd51]

Quote: Originally Posted by khaliib

This odd functionality follows true with many other ratings as well. Whether this makes sense or not, this is how they function in the game. One can take it and work with it, or use it to note why they don't like the game or EA to be more exact. I would agree and say continued "Tuning" of the ratings functionality is needed, but CFM can be enjoyed if you start to see how things work.

Truth be told, I enjoy reading what you've dug up about these things so far because you're right, it does mitigate some frustration by just simply knowing how these things work. Regardless of how odd the functionality may be.

The work you put into is appreciated on my end. It's just a shame you, as a gamer, have to be the one to go through all this trouble when it's really their job to explain to us how their game works. Not to compare two different games, but The Show does a tremendous job with in depth detail about the ins and outs, even the ones that happen behind the scenes. Madden's started trending more in this direction lately, though, so hopefully it will continue.

[Tatupu_64]

There is no one in the NFL with 0 awareness. I don't understand what all the complaining is for. There is CLEARLY an impact to dropping awareness/PRC. Just because defenders are making tackles doesn't mean they're playing well?

They are probably on the field 75% of the time since the offense is so terrible. Either the team they are playing scores a TD every play, or there is going to be someone who makes a tackle