Why can’t Madden make a game like NBA 2k

[tg88forHOF]

Quote: Originally Posted by bucky60

Weren't these his two statements? 1. EA can do whatever they want and suffer no consequences because football is so popular, they have an exclusive license, and anything is better than nothing. 2. Football is way more popular than basketball, but NBA2K outsells Madden anyway. At most you can say 1) starts with an exaggeration with "whatever they want to do", but we know exactly what he's talking about mentioning the exclusive and no competition. I didn't move any goalpost, and my ability to read for content is just fine. Your logic was flawed.

No, those are not his original two statements. Go back a page or two....it's not that difficult to find; I don't post that often. Those are the summaries I made of his two statements...and yes, one of them was summarized sloppily. I wasn't expecting a third party to jump into the conversation.

Here's a hint: I quoted them in the first post of mine that you jumped on. Somehow, you skimmed or missed that part, and selectively quoted just my (admittedly sloppy) summary so you could make your point. But sure, you read for content, and didn't move any goalposts.

I'd just copy them all forward for you, but frankly, you chose to insert yourself into this...I'm not inclined to do your homework for you.

Me, I'd have done all of that homework before inserting myself into a conversation to call one side of it out. But I'd also have read the entirety of the post I was quoting, too.

[tg88forHOF]

Alternatively, we could cut the crap for a second, and deal with the reality of this little side quest...

You talked about how "we know what he really meant" with his original statement (which I find odd, given that you're struggling to locate those statements).

What should be equally clear, if you were being at all objective, is the underlying point he was trying to make by invoking the exclusivity deal: Because EA has the only NFL game on the market, we have no choice but to buy their game.

The underlying point of my rebuttal is also quite clear (it's in the portion of my post that you chose not to include in your quote, when you weren't moving goalposts): We do have a choice; we could simply choose to not buy an NFL game. Clearly, some people are already making this choice, because an NBA game with a smaller market is outselling the only available NFL game.

That point goes to the heart of a major piece of the orthodoxy around here...that the exclusive license provides EA a guaranteed market, and insulates them from losing sales due to product dissatisfaction.

That clearly isn't true....EA can lose sales. They are losing sales. Enough of the NFL market is "meh" on Madden that the smaller-market NBA game is outselling it....we all agreed that's happening.

Yes, the exclusive license does provide EA with a market crutch...I've never debated that, because it'd be a stupid thing to debate. But they're not entirely exempt from quality standards, or immune to impacting their bottom line if they don't meet those standards. We're seeing it happen.

That all suggests an answer to this thread that a lot of people don't want to talk about. Why can't Madden be more like 2k? Because we, as a market, value the NFL trappings (team names, players, etc) more than we value a deep franchise experience. EA is currently giving us what we've proven we value highest...a game, ANY game, with NFL branding.

We keep proving it by buying the game, crucifying it and complaining like it stole our girl, then buying it again...then blaming the license like we had no choice in the matter. That's a copout, and it's a root (maybe THE root) of the issue...we DO have a choice. EA keeps giving us a product we claim is flawed, and asking us if we want it anyway. We keep saying "yes please" with dollar bills.

Can you blame them for thinking they're giving us exactly what we want? If EA really, truly doesn't give a chunk of petrified crap about quality, do you think it's the license making them complacent, or the market's repeated validation of their efforts?

But you didn't engage on any of that. You thought you saw a "gotcha" moment, pulled out the part of the conversation you thought would let you score those points, and that's where your focus is. 3 responses and counting now...none of them talking about the game or the license or the topic, all of them focused on being technically correct in your callout.

I'm just speculating here, but I think that's because you saw me giving rebuttal to somebody complaining about the game...and that simply can't be allowed to stand. Stop the Crusade! I need to put an infidel in their place!

But that's just speculation. I feel confident doing that, because I know you'll be here to ignore any of the functional pieces of what I just said to let me know if I'm wrong.

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by tg88forHOF

Those are the summaries I made of his two statements...and yes, one of them was summarized sloppily. Here's a hint: I quoted them in the first post of mine that you jumped on. Somehow, you skimmed or missed that part, and selectively quoted just my (admittedly sloppy) summary so you could make your point. But sure, you read for content, and didn't move any goalposts.

I kept going back looking for the post. I found one that appeared to have them and stopped looking any further. That's on you if you sloppily paraphrased.

[tg88forHOF]

Quote: Originally Posted by bucky60

I kept going back looking for the post. I found one that appeared to have them and stopped looking any further. That's on you if you sloppily paraphrased.

Uh huh.

It's on me to provide enough clarity on a response I made to somebody else to prevent you from calling me out, should you choose not to actually read what I was responding to?

Which you're familiar enough with to clarify what that poster really meant, but suddenly can't find...even though it was contained in the post you physically hit "quote" on?

I mean, the guy I responded to knows what he said, so any extra clarity wasn't necessary for him. It's strictly to prevent you from having to put in any undue effort when you trigger and decide to call it out.

That's awesome.

[bucky60]

I believe we should quit the crap too.

Quote: Originally Posted by tg88forHOF

What should be equally clear, if you were being at all objective, is the underlying point he was trying to make by invoking the exclusivity deal: Because EA has the only NFL game on the market, we have no choice but to buy their game.

His point was we can't buy any other AAA NFL licensed game. There is no other AAA NFL Licensed game.

Quote: Originally Posted by tg88forHOF

we could simply choose to not buy an NFL game. Clearly, some people are already making this choice, because an NBA game with a smaller market is outselling the only available NFL game. That point goes to the heart of a major piece of the orthodoxy around here...that the exclusive license provides EA a guaranteed market, and insulates them from losing sales due to product dissatisfaction. That clearly isn't true....EA can lose sales. They are losing sales. Enough of the NFL market is "meh" on Madden that the smaller-market NBA game is outselling it....we all agreed that's happening.

And here is where your logic is flawed. The exclusive does isolate them from losing sales. The current game without the NFL license would not sell as well as the current game with the NFL license.

Quote: Originally Posted by tg88forHOF

Yes, the exclusive license does provide EA with a market crutch...I've never debated that, because it'd be a stupid thing to debate. But they're not entirely exempt from quality standards, or immune to impacting their bottom line if they don't meet those standards. We're seeing it happen.

It greatly reduces those quality standards.

Quote: Originally Posted by tg88forHOF

That all suggests an answer to this thread that a lot of people don't want to talk about. Why can't Madden be more like 2k? Because we, as a market, value the NFL trappings (team names, players, etc) more than we value a deep franchise experience. EA is currently giving us what we've proven we value highest...a game, ANY game, with NFL branding. then blaming the license like we had no choice in the matter.

I don't think that was the original question of the thread. Why can't EA make a game like NBA2K. I'm not sure the OP was doing a deep Marketing dive. We agree that the exclusive license allows EA to provide minimal improvements and still sell.

Quote: Originally Posted by tg88forHOF

then blaming the license like we had no choice in the matter.

People blame the license for the state the game is in compared to other Major team sports licensed AAA video games. We both already established the license allows EA to provide a Madden not nearly up to the standards of those other games.

Quote: Originally Posted by tg88forHOF

Can you blame them for thinking they're giving us exactly what we want? If EA really, truly doesn't give a chunk of petrified crap about quality, do you think it's the license making them complacent, or the market's repeated validation of their efforts?

EA knows they are not giving us what we want. The NFL license allows them to do that. They give us what we will accept considering there are no other AAA NFL licensed games out there. That's what there marketing research tells them. It's what maximizes there profits.

Quote: Originally Posted by tg88forHOF

But you didn't engage on any of that. You thought you saw a "gotcha" moment, pulled out the part of the conversation you thought would let you score those points, and that's where your focus is. 3 responses and counting now...none of them talking about the game or the license or the topic, all of them focused on being technically correct in your callout.

How ironic. Methinks you tried a gotcha moment because someone was being critical of Madden. It wasn't difficult to see the actual points he was trying to make and you went to great links to try and prove him wrong taking some exaggerations as literal trying to score some points.

Quote: Originally Posted by tg88forHOF

I'm just speculating here, but I think that's because you saw me giving rebuttal to somebody complaining about the game...and that simply can't be allowed to stand. Stop the Crusade! I need to put an infidel in their place! But that's just speculation. I feel confident doing that, because I know you'll be here to ignore any of the functional pieces of what I just said to let me know if I'm wrong.

Again Ironic.

Let's work on what we probably should agree on.

The NFL license does GREATLY effect EA sales and allows them to provide a game that doesn't come close to other AAA titles in the same genre because there is NO other AAA NFL licensed game out there. Madden is the only choice for one. (or someone could say there is no other choice and any reasonable person would understand the point the person was trying to make).

Football is a far more popular sport than basketball yet NBA2K outsells Madden in the US.


Lets just agree and move on.

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by tg88forHOF

Uh huh. Which you're familiar enough with to clarify what that poster really meant, but suddenly can't find...even though it was contained in the post you physically hit "quote" on? .

I went looking for it. Thought I found the equivalent in your post, so I stopped looking.

[tg88forHOF]

Quote: Originally Posted by bucky60

And here is where your logic is flawed. The exclusive does isolate them from losing sales

More NBA fans buy 2k than NFL fans buy Madden. This demonstrates that 2k is providing a higher quality game, and attracting more of their fan base than EA is. A large number of NFL fans won't buy Madden.

Yet the exclusive license insulates EA from losing sales.

Yeah, we're done. I can't even start to figure out the right language to use to crack belief like that. It'd be like arguing religion.

Sorry I upset your catechism.

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by tg88forHOF

More NBA fans buy 2k than NFL fans buy Madden. This demonstrates that 2k is providing a higher quality game, and attracting more of their fan base than EA is. A large number of NFL fans won't buy Madden. Yet the exclusive license insulates EA from losing sales. Yeah, we're done. I can't even start to figure out the right language to use to crack belief like that. It'd be like arguing religion. Sorry I upset your catechism.

Oh Please.....


As far as I can tell this was his original post.

Quote: Originally Posted by timhere1970

The reason Madden does not make a game like 2k is because lawyers make sure they don't have too. Of course there is a market for an in depth franchise mode in NFL football. The problem is that the company already has 100% of the nfl football market. They don't do it because we are going to buy their game anyway because we have nowhere else to go. I don't know what the financials were with headcoach because we only get what they want us to hear. If it took sales away from Madden they would scrap it because they were only making more work for themselves for the same money. Football has such an advantage in video games because it is by far more popular than basketball and it is so much easier to work through a dynasty due to the number of games to play. Yet nba 2k outsells it. Myleague is not the only reason for that but it has to be a reason. Just imagine if 2k21 came out with a franchise mode as shallow as Madden. NBA live 22 would then come out with an in depth franchise mode to take that market away. That is a reason they make an in depth franchise. They still have to compete.

And this is how you interpreted it?

Quote: Originally Posted by tg88forHOF

1. EA can do whatever they want and suffer no consequences because football is so popular, they have an exclusive license, and anything is better than nothing.

Quote: Originally Posted by tg88forHOF

1. EA can do whatever they want and suffer no consequences because football is so popular, they have an exclusive license, and anything is better than nothing. 2. Football is way more popular than basketball, but NBA2K outsells Madden anyway.

He clearly is saying that Madden having 100% of the AAA NFL licensed video game market has a big influence on the quality of the product because it will still sell well (because of the exclusive) AND you get your number ONE from THAT?

And you want to make accusations at ME? Dude, you need some self awareness.