Zone defense

[tg88forHOF]

Quote: Originally Posted by sandp

I used to user the dline; but this year decided to try cb and it was hard, so tried to user the safety. First few games I was doing too much. If i had a cover 2 invert where i had to drop down and someone ran two crossing routes id often leave one open as i would double team one receiver and not follow my assignment. IF i called a cover 1 and i ran with a crosser i got beat by the post. IT was always a mistake i created. So i went back and watched how the cpu played as a safety, and now i've learned to wait and anticipate, try to see route combinations and pick your spot. Also to trust my teammates.

As you continue to learn more, you'll find yourself noticing where the holes in coverage usually are, and deciding who to user based on those holes.

For example, in a C2 Hard Flat, you know the corners will be styaing closer to the LoS, so the traditional gap in C2 behind the corner but in front of the S will be bigger than normal. So usering either the S on the passing strength side or the slot defender positions you well to help cover up that larger hole.

I get a lot of milage usering the slot defender, whatever position that happens to be (CB, S, a LB if I get caught in a bad personnel package). Not only does the two-way go potential of a slot receiver favor a human brain in the first place, but it positions you well to help out the LB.

[4thQtrStre5S]

Quote: Originally Posted by tg88forHOF

Or the people who do know more than the casual fan, but don't realize how outdated their information is. This is all over the place, not just Madden....national media, broadcast announcers, actual "analysts" who write football analysis for a living. But a lot of those people are former players or coaches, who played or coached in the 70s, 80s, or 90s...and the game has changed radically since then. I think people underestimate the influence repeating those misconceptions or outdated information for 3 hours at a time on Sunday can have on the general football consciousness. I was so thrilled when Dan Fouts got let go and not rehired by another network...the dude was just plain not competent to call a modern game. We see it here when people see season completion percentages in the high 60%-low 70% range and call it unrealistic. Or when announcers talk about "setting up play action with the running game", or about how team X will win if they get RB Y an arbitrary number of carries, or about how rain or snow means the passing game is off the table. Or, in this case, how people think running a 4-3 or 3-4 scheme means most of your plays will be run out of a 4-3 or 3-4, and nickel and dime packages are rare exotics, instead of what you should be running 70% of the time. It doesn't help that, again, Madden plays into this. Default defensive playbooks still have a higher number of plays out of base packages than any individual sub package. Hell, as I was typing the above, I realized that the Skills Trainer basically gives the same information as your average TV broadcaster....great info if it were still 1995. This is a fun ranty tangent

Right there ^^^^ It annoys me beyond words as I search for a reasonable playbook and they are filled with a plethora of base formation plays and 3 nickel formations - Nickel Normal, Nickel Wide and Double A Gap, for example.

[tg88forHOF]

Quote: Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S

Right there ^^^^ It annoys me beyond words as I search for a reasonable playbook and they are filled with a plethora of base formation plays and 3 nickel formations - Nickel Normal, Nickel Wide and Double A Gap, for example.

And not all of those sub packages have the full compliment of pattern-match play options, for example...while pretty much every base package has most or all of them.

I can totally understand why people try to play pass defense out of base personnel...the game sets people up to fail unless they come in already knowing better.

[tg88forHOF]

But again, it's far from just Madden.

I'm pretty active at Arrowhead Pride (the SB Nation Chiefs site)...when Spagnuolo was brought in last year, they did a whole series of educational articles on switching from a 3-4 to a 4-3, the 4-3 Under and how it's constructed, the different line and LB roles in a 4-3 under, and so forth. The articles were great...well-written, explained the concepts well, and so forth.

...except what Spagnuolo likes to do in subs (which LB he takes off the field, how he likes to dial up pressure, whether he runs more 3-safety sets, etc) took up one part of the last article in the series.

And it's just kept going since then. KC's LBs have been...well, not good...for a minute now, and there is always endless speculation about whether we have a real LEO on the roster, who's going to play SAM, whether Spags uses his WILL like a "real" WILL. The population of the site literally spends 75% of its time and effort discussing a defense that's on the field less than 30% of the time (often WAY less).

[4thQtrStre5S]

Quote: Originally Posted by tg88forHOF

But again, it's far from just Madden. I'm pretty active at Arrowhead Pride (the SB Nation Chiefs site)...when Spagnuolo was brought in last year, they did a whole series of educational articles on switching from a 3-4 to a 4-3, the 4-3 Under and how it's constructed, the different line and LB roles in a 4-3 under, and so forth. The articles were great...well-written, explained the concepts well, and so forth. ...except what Spagnuolo likes to do in subs (which LB he takes off the field, how he likes to dial up pressure, whether he runs more 3-safety sets, etc) took up one part of the last article in the series. And it's just kept going since then. KC's LBs have been...well, not good...for a minute now, and there is always endless speculation about whether we have a real LEO on the roster, who's going to play SAM, whether Spags uses his WILL like a "real" WILL. The population of the site literally spends 75% of its time and effort discussing a defense that's on the field less than 30% of the time (often WAY less).

One thing that doesn't help, and is a very basic and easy thing to change, is terminology. We need to stop calling 3-4 and 4-3 "base" formations and start referring to Nickel as the base formation.

[4thQtrStre5S]

One thing I notice with the pro madden players compared to the casual player is that the pro players appear to understand, or have memorized the route combos from at least the popular formations. This obviously helps in setting up coverages. As I witness many pro-Madden players mixing zone and M2M coverages specifically to what they expect the offense is running.

I would recommend all Madden players learn what to expect from any given formation. Example - Bunch formations: expect the tight inside receiver to run a flat route. So make sure ot have someone available to cover the flat, and be careful using Cloud/Flat, Curl/Flat type zones that may get pulled down and allow for an open deeper route. This may be a good situation for the usering of the safety to the Bunch side, or the CB.

I found this nice little break down of routes from various positions very informative.

NFL 101: Breaking Down the Basics of the Route Tree

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...the-route-tree

[Richie71]

In terms of playing Madden vs AI, on All-Madden, you can absolutely be effective playing zone. I can play lots of cover 3, from base and nickel, and hold the AI to 2 TDs a game. This is with the overrated Dallas Cowboys, but they certainly bust less coverages on Madden than IRL!

What I have found is:

• Have the right players to play. With Dallas, Smith and Van Der Esch are good enough. I drafted a good SS and with those plus a slot corner, it's solid underneath.
• You will give up high completion percentages, but few yards.
• Be patient, be bend but don't break. You will get an opportunity through a sack or penalty or busted play to get the AI to 3rd and long, if you wait.
• Change the coverages around. Even if the same kind (cover 2, 3, 4) play different variants i.e. cloud, sky, etc. This is much more the case than Madden 20.

[Dblock1111]

Quote: Originally Posted by 4thQtrStre5S

One thing that doesn't help, and is a very basic and easy thing to change, is terminology. We need to stop calling 3-4 and 4-3 "base" formations and start referring to Nickel as the base formation.

I don't think we need to stop calling those formations "base" as much as we just need to acknowledge that 4-2-5 or 3-3-5 is another "base" defense. Which is crazy to me that they don't have that in Madden yet since you could set a base defense as 4-2-5 or 3-3-5 in NCAA 14.

Also I think that 4-3 and 3-4 will always be considered "base" until a critical mass of IRL coaches start acknowledging that their base defense is something out of nickel.