Rubberband AI??

[Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by phillyfan23

You cant exactly prove anything without the actual code in your hands.

Neither can you or anyone else making the accusation that the Madden AI is cheating them out of wins with rubber-banding. That’s my entire point.

If you want to prove something as true, you need evidence to definitively prove the opposite of the thing is false.

What we have established as facts so far: the company that owns the code says there’s no rubber-banding, and PC data miners to-date have never found any evidence of rubber-banding.

Find concrete proof that EA is lying to its users or find something the data miners missed and maybe let’s have a conversation then.

[PhillyPhanatic14]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

Neither can you or anyone else making the accusation that the Madden AI is cheating them out of wins with rubber-banding. That’s my entire point. If you want to prove something as true, you need evidence to definitively prove the opposite of the thing is false. What we have established as facts so far: the company that owns the code says there’s no rubber-banding, and PC data miners to-date have never found any evidence of rubber-banding. Find concrete proof that EA is lying to its users or find something the data miners missed and maybe let’s have a conversation then.

We can have a conversation now. Nobody is calling EA liars. Nobody is calling PC data miners liars. We're sharing our experience... on a Madden forum... which is totally fine to do. There's nobody going after EA or going after anyone. Can we just move on and allow people to share their experiences?

[mercalnd]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

People have been crying wolf about losing games to comeback code in every version of Madden for literally decades now. I find it incredibly curious that the one concrete example we can actually investigate for any bread crumbs of any sort of rubber banding is suddenly invalid or immediately dismissible. Like I said at the top - I think people are arguing in bad faith here.

I typically believe that comeback ai talk in sports games is triggered by other factors such as fatigue, increased urgency/aggressiveness on the part of the losing team, etc.

So I pretty much agree that the is no rubberbanding. That said, all of your replies seem to be ignoring the fact that this thread is not just about users complaining about blowing a big lead but also many users are stating that thay are mounting big comebacks as the game seems to become easier once they are down by 3 scores as if the difficulty level was lowered behind the scenes.

I tend to believe that recurring scenario is due to the AI essentially going too conservative with a big lead but I don't think the discussion should be reduced to people complaining about losing.

[Qcsports4]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

Racing game developers, especially of arcade racing games like Mario Kart, Burnout, and Need For Speed, pretty candidly admit their games have rubberbanding. Really the only console racer that doesn’t rubberband is Forza, which uses machine learning to power all their CPU racers via the Drivatar system. That aside - I think it’s quite an act of bad faith to just assume that EA has been lying outright to people who have asked them the same pointed question many times over something like a decade. If we are to assume EA wouldn’t give us a straight answer on rubberbanding anyway, why bother even asking the question? Or any question at all? If we are going to ask someone in a position of knowledge a question, it is intellectually dishonest to then immediately reject the answer we are given because we don’t like the answer we received. We don’t know what the code looks like, EA does. If they say there’s no rubberbanding, then there’s no rubberbanding.

There may be no rubber rubberbanding A.I. but,there is and has been what I call the "E.A. First Game Bug". What that is,and it's occurred in the Madden series,NHL series and sometimes in the NCAA series as well,is when you play your first game after powering on,the CPU team plays faster than yours,gets all the loose pucks,go up and down the field while your team can barely get anything done. I've experienced it many times and I know I have because after playing the game when it's doing that,I quit and restart the game and the CPU team plays like how I have the sliders set up. Doesn't happen all the time but,it does occur.

[Broncos86]

Quote: Originally Posted by Qcsports4

There may be no rubber rubberbanding A.I. but,there is and has been what I call the "E.A. First Game Bug". What that is,and it's occurred in the Madden series,NHL series and sometimes in the NCAA series as well,is when you play your first game after powering on,the CPU team plays faster than yours,gets all the loose pucks,go up and down the field while your team can barely get anything done. I've experienced it many times and I know I have because after playing the game when it's doing that,I quit and restart the game and the CPU team plays like how I have the sliders set up. Doesn't happen all the time but,it does occur.

Having played over a decade of FIFA, NHL, and Madden, I cannot say I have ever experienced this.

[timhere1970]

I personally think there is some rubberbanding in the game. At least some keep it close coding. Then once you get up by three scores it breaks lose. There used to be dynamic difficulty in the game which could be left over. Not here to take shots at EA but there is two decade old code in this game and I doubt anybody at EA knows it all. They also say there is no special powers for the cpu in the last 2 minutes of the half or game but I have played a lot of madden over the years and way over half of the passing yards I have given up are within the two minutes warnings. Just my two cents and I realize I could just be wrong.

[Broncos86]

Quote: Originally Posted by timhere1970

I personally think there is some rubberbanding in the game. At least some keep it close coding. Then once you get up by three scores it breaks lose. There used to be dynamic difficulty in the game which could be left over. Not here to take shots at EA but there is two decade old code in this game and I doubt anybody at EA knows it all. They also say there is no special powers for the cpu in the last 2 minutes of the half or game but I have played a lot of madden over the years and way over half of the passing yards I have given up are within the two minutes warnings. Just my two cents and I realize I could just be wrong.

But again, what proof do we have of that other than "I really really think this." It just defies reason.

At this point, if this thread is just about what we think, then I guess w/e. But nobody here can offer any evidence to prove that there is any kind of comeback / keep it close / rubberband code.

It's silly to think that our individual experiences summarize the whole. The way I play, the plays I call, the habits I have, my stick skills, the difficulty I play, all of it plays a factor in how we perceive the game and the outcomes we experience. Moreover, each one of those are variables in the equation.

Someone can come here and say "Well I play All-Pro and the AI always comes back on me." But I can, without much effort, crush that same AI every single game. So where's the rubberband mechanic? We can play the back and forth all day long, but we might as well just bash our faces against a wall.

EA says there isn't one. So there isn't one.

[timhere1970]

Quote: Originally Posted by Broncos86

But again, what proof do we have of that other than "I really really think this." It just defies reason. At this point, if this thread is just about what we think, then I guess w/e. But nobody here can offer any evidence to prove that there is any kind of comeback / keep it close / rubberband code. It's silly to think that our individual experiences summarize the whole. The way I play, the plays I call, the habits I have, my stick skills, the difficulty I play, all of it plays a factor in how we perceive the game and the outcomes we experience. Moreover, each one of those are variables in the equation. Someone can come here and say "Well I play All-Pro and the AI always comes back on me." But I can, without much effort, crush that same AI every single game. So where's the rubberband mechanic? We can play the back and forth all day long, but we might as well just bash our faces against a wall. EA says there isn't one. So there isn't one.

Yes, the thread is about what people think. Like most threads. EA ain't my religion so I don't take what they say as delivered by god. They have said a lot of things that don't come to be true. If they always told the truth we would have had a blog on what sliders do that they said was coming five years ago. They are a corporation.