Same ole scrioted animations...

[PacMan3000]

People aren't launching complaints, they are launching concerns. No one is saying they hate this or that without playing the game. But they are saying, based on screenshots and video's, that they have a few issues with aspects of the game. I don't understand what's wrong with this. EA releases screenshots and video so that you can form an interest and an opinion--good or bad.

It's like when you see a movie trailer. You come away from that 3 minute trailer thinking, "it looks solid, but I'll wait for the dvd." That doesn't mean you are right or wrong, it just means that, based upon what a given company has shown you, you aren't sold on paying a lot of money to see the film.

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by ObiWanJenkins

Another who misses the point. EA doesn't care about hardcore fans. EA cares about the millions of casual fans that buy the game.

I don't know about that... I don't know of any company that would casually dismiss it's base. Yes, casual gamers make up for the bulk of sales. Yet they're also the most fickle - if something else comes along that's the hot thing of the moment, they'll bolt to that. Our definition of a casual fan may vary - to me, most of my friends are casual fans. They don't play for realistic stats necessarily; they mostly play for the enjoyment of playing H2H or playing the computer in exhibition games (for practice). They may go to a website to try to get a tip here or there, but by and large they don't follow the daily goings on of all things Madden as some of us do here. To a man, these are guys that think Madden is the greatest, but will say they hate this about the game, or hate that. They just don't voice their opinion to the masses.

I think Vision/Precision passing was an attempt to appease the hardcore fans; an attempt to make the game more realistic. Same with the OL blocking; it was an attempt to appease the hardcore gamers that complained about the running game. IMO most changes to the game yearly are made because of requests from the hardcore base - at issue is some of the decisions that are made in implementing these changes.

For example, they've tried to address the tackling issue by adding more tackles. Okay, but might it make better sense to approach the issue a different way? That's what people are questioning. It's not like Tiburon is being asked to make the game hyper-realistic; even if it were possible it's likely the game would no longer be fun at that point - or fun to most people.

Your take on the exclusivity agreement is interesting. To me, having less choice is a HUGE factor in what you're seeing now. Madden wouldn't be as scrutinized as it's being now if there were other NFL football games out there. They said they expected it. Not meaning to get all patriotic or whatnot, but the fact is as a free society we're used to choice. And we naturally "reject" the notion of less/no choice. Guaranteed, if MLB2K isn't what MVPers want the game to be, people there are going to voice their complaints about the game - and rightly so. Your view of "get over it already" is wrong on so many levels, because it goes against what so many of us believe instinctively. It's difficult to equate this situation to others in big business, but it's not difficult to see that people just really hate having choice taken away from them.

[SageInfinite]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I don't know about that... I don't know of any company that would casually dismiss it's base. Yes, casual gamers make up for the bulk of sales. Yet they're also the most fickle - if something else comes along that's the hot thing of the moment, they'll bolt to that. Our definition of a casual fan may vary - to me, most of my friends are casual fans. They don't play for realistic stats necessarily; they mostly play for the enjoyment of playing H2H or playing the computer in exhibition games (for practice). They may go to a website to try to get a tip here or there, but by and large they don't follow the daily goings on of all things Madden as some of us do here. To a man, these are guys that think Madden is the greatest, but will say they hate this about the game, or hate that. They just don't voice their opinion to the masses. I think Vision/Precision passing was an attempt to appease the hardcore fans; an attempt to make the game more realistic. Same with the OL blocking; it was an attempt to appease the hardcore gamers that complained about the running game. IMO most changes to the game yearly are made because of requests from the hardcore base - at issue is some of the decisions that are made in implementing these changes. For example, they've tried to address the tackling issue by adding more tackles. Okay, but might it make better sense to approach the issue a different way? That's what people are questioning. It's not like Tiburon is being asked to make the game hyper-realistic; even if it were possible it's likely the game would no longer be fun at that point - or fun to most people. Your take on the exclusivity agreement is interesting. To me, having less choice is a HUGE factor in what you're seeing now. Madden wouldn't be as scrutinized as it's being now if there were other NFL football games out there. They said they expected it. Not meaning to get all patriotic or whatnot, but the fact is as a free society we're used to choice. And we naturally "reject" the notion of less/no choice. Guaranteed, if MLB2K isn't what MVPers want the game to be, people there are going to voice their complaints about the game - and rightly so. Your view of "get over it already" is wrong on so many levels, because it goes against what so many of us believe instinctively. It's difficult to equate this situation to others in big business, but it's not difficult to see that people just really hate having choice taken away from them.

^^Real Talk

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

I don't know about that... I don't know of any company that would casually dismiss it's base. Yes, casual gamers make up for the bulk of sales. Yet they're also the most fickle - if something else comes along that's the hot thing of the moment, they'll bolt to that. Our definition of a casual fan may vary - to me, most of my friends are casual fans. They don't play for realistic stats necessarily; they mostly play for the enjoyment of playing H2H or playing the computer in exhibition games (for practice). They may go to a website to try to get a tip here or there, but by and large they don't follow the daily goings on of all things Madden as some of us do here. To a man, these are guys that think Madden is the greatest, but will say they hate this about the game, or hate that. They just don't voice their opinion to the masses.

The casual public may be fickle, but it's what vaulted EA to the top. Hardcopre gamers are a tiny percentage of those that buy the game. They are not the base customer. EA could lose the hardcore audience and it wouldn't make much of a difference to their sales.

Quote:

I think Vision/Precision passing was an attempt to appease the hardcore fans; an attempt to make the game more realistic. Same with the OL blocking; it was an attempt to appease the hardcore gamers that complained about the running game. IMO most changes to the game yearly are made because of requests from the hardcore base - at issue is some of the decisions that are made in implementing these changes. For example, they've tried to address the tackling issue by adding more tackles. Okay, but might it make better sense to approach the issue a different way? That's what people are questioning. It's not like Tiburon is being asked to make the game hyper-realistic; even if it were possible it's likely the game would no longer be fun at that point - or fun to most people.

I think you're wrong. The passing gameplay change was implemented to appeal to a different group of gamers, not to appease anybody. EA is going to sell millions of copies of its game a year with or without the hardcore gamer set.

Quote:

Your take on the exclusivity agreement is interesting. To me, having less choice is a HUGE factor in what you're seeing now. Madden wouldn't be as scrutinized as it's being now if there were other NFL football games out there. They said they expected it. Not meaning to get all patriotic or whatnot, but the fact is as a free society we're used to choice. And we naturally "reject" the notion of less/no choice. Guaranteed, if MLB2K isn't what MVPers want the game to be, people there are going to voice their complaints about the game - and rightly so. Your view of "get over it already" is wrong on so many levels, because it goes against what so many of us believe instinctively. It's difficult to equate this situation to others in big business, but it's not difficult to see that people just really hate having choice taken away from them.

I don't see posts lamenting the lack of being able to watch NFL football on NBC. Nobody is complaing about the exclusive rights to the World Series possessed by Fox. Their presentation is atrocious. On the other hand, people complain about the two party system in American politics, but people don't vote for a third. People who didn't even vote complain about George Bush. No, it's not about lack of choice. It's the need to feel like you matter by shoving your opinions down someone else's throat. "Get over it" means stop talking about it. You can still be upset, but you don't need to let everybody know in every post how upset you are. Do you really think posting 100 times "I hate this NFL agreement" is going to change anything?

Quote: Originally Posted by PacMan3000

People aren't launching complaints, they are launching concerns. No one is saying they hate this or that without playing the game. But they are saying, based on screenshots and video's, that they have a few issues with aspects of the game. I don't understand what's wrong with this. EA releases screenshots and video so that you can form an interest and an opinion--good or bad. It's like when you see a movie trailer. You come away from that 3 minute trailer thinking, "it looks solid, but I'll wait for the dvd." That doesn't mean you are right or wrong, it just means that, based upon what a given company has shown you, you aren't sold on paying a lot of money to see the film.

The issue isn't people voicing their concerns. The issue is each of those people creating a separate topic to voice that concern. I propose the site administrators make a new football forum called "Madden Bitchfest" and let them create as many separate topics as they want. I'm sorry, but I laugh at the people who were complaining about not getting their money's worth the last two years still complaining about the same things now. At what point do they smarten up and just not buy the game?

[PacMan3000]

^^So what do you want? A Madden love fest? A forum that is completely devoid of differing opinions?

I really don't get it. It's not OK for people to come here and voice their concerns about the upcoming game. It is OK, however, for people to come here and write "WOW, look at that screenshot" or "I can't wait for this game now?"

I think you are forgetting the fact that the people "complaining" are the people who like Madden. They like football. These aren't people who couldn't care less because if that were so, they wouldn't bother to drop by the board on a daily basis. If anyone is going to drop $460.00 dollars to get this game, to me, they can say whatever they want. Maybe you just shouldn't read it. People aren't going to hold back their true feelings just because you only want to read positive Madden replies.

People here will give Madden it's props when it is due. I know I will criticize a screen shot or video, but will also give EA respect whenever they show the product in a good light (like the most recent batch of photos released). It's a two-way street.

Quote: Originally Posted by PacMan3000

^^So what do you want? A Madden love fest? A forum that is completely devoid of differing opinions? I really don't get it. It's not OK for people to come here and voice their concerns about the upcoming game. It is OK, however, for people to come here and write "WOW, look at that screenshot" or "I can't wait for this game now?" I think you are forgetting the fact that the people "complaining" are the people who like Madden. They like football. These aren't people who couldn't care less because if that were so, they wouldn't bother to drop by the board on a daily basis. If anyone is going to drop $460.00 dollars to get this game, to me, they can say whatever they want. Maybe you just shouldn't read it. People aren't going to hold back their true feelings just because you only want to read positive Madden replies. People here will give Madden it's props when it is due. I know I will criticize a screen shot or video, but will also give EA respect whenever they show the product in a good light (like the most recent batch of photos released). It's a two-way street.

Are really that dense? I've said numerous times that complaints and discussion are good things. I've never once said that negative things have no place in this forum. Does the exclusive agreement need to be brought up all the time? NO. We are aware of it. No need to remind us. Does someone need to create a new thread talking about animations while backing up his concerns with unrelated still pictures? NO. There is already a thread that talks about animations. And guess what? It, unlike this thread, has links to video showing the animations.

I understand you criticising a screenshot if you think it looks bad. Or an animation. But don't you think posting a screenshot and criticising the animations in the game is a little random? The two are totally unrelated. Complain about anything you want, but there's no need to say the same things over and over again. No need to call the developers lazy because you don't like the game. No need to bash the entire company over one game you don't like. And definitely, there's no need to create a topic every time you have a thought in your head.

I apologise if I offend anybody, but spending $460 on a console to play ONE game is idiotic. Would you buy an iPod to only play one song? If people are really buying an Xbox 360 solely for Madden, it only shows how stupid the video game consumer is.

[PacMan3000]

Well, I didn't mean literally buying the system for ONE game. I don't think people are paying $400 to buy one game for the next year. But there are certainly people out there who love football enough to buy the XBOX 360 with the thought of just buying Madden...and then later down the line buying more games. I'm sort of like that. I've always bought systems based upon hearing information about the new football games. That's just me, as I play football all year round, so I get the most out of it. I actually have a friend like that, too. I'm not a huge gamer. I have quite a few games, but I always go back to the football ones on a constant basis. So, in a way, I buy systems for the improved, next gen football games first and foremost.

And you keep re-iterating that people don't like the game. They DO like the game. That's why people get pissed off when they look at a video or look at a screenshot and see something they expected to get fixed or improved. I understand what you mean about people complaining over and over again. But I think people just want to vent their frustations in hope that EA or whoever might get wind of it. EA won't change anything if they think their consumers are always content.

[Mikejones1964]

Quote: Originally Posted by ObiWanJenkins

The casual public may be fickle, but it's what vaulted EA to the top. Hardcopre gamers are a tiny percentage of those that buy the game. They are not the base customer. EA could lose the hardcore audience and it wouldn't make much of a difference to their sales. I think you're wrong. The passing gameplay change was implemented to appeal to a different group of gamers, not to appease anybody. EA is going to sell millions of copies of its game a year with or without the hardcore gamer set. I don't see posts lamenting the lack of being able to watch NFL football on NBC. Nobody is complaing about the exclusive rights to the World Series possessed by Fox. Their presentation is atrocious. On the other hand, people complain about the two party system in American politics, but people don't vote for a third. People who didn't even vote complain about George Bush. No, it's not about lack of choice. It's the need to feel like you matter by shoving your opinions down someone else's throat. "Get over it" means stop talking about it. You can still be upset, but you don't need to let everybody know in every post how upset you are. Do you really think posting 100 times "I hate this NFL agreement" is going to change anything? The issue isn't people voicing their concerns. The issue is each of those people creating a separate topic to voice that concern. I propose the site administrators make a new football forum called "Madden Bitchfest" and let them create as many separate topics as they want. I'm sorry, but I laugh at the people who were complaining about not getting their money's worth the last two years still complaining about the same things now. At what point do they smarten up and just not buy the game?