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Rashad19 · 05-05-2008, 09:12 AM

Guys,

After viewing the Gillette Stadium trailer for Madden 09' and analyzing the feedback that everyone gave I found myself doing some soul searching on the current state of Madden. This thread was not intended to start a bash fest against EA so let's not go there. I simply wanted an opportunity to address the community who share the same passion for this game that I do. John Madden Football was created because their was no other game that accurately portrayed the X and O's of professional football. In essence it was created not only to have fun but to heighten one's "Football IQ". Now fast forward 20 years later and I could not help but feel disappointed as I watched Eli Manning dropback 10-15 yards, roll outside the pocket and throw strikes all over the field. The last time I checked the passing game consisted of a 3...5...and 7 step dropback along with the sprintout game. That's football 101!! As a football purist and enthusiast I feel the only way Madden is going to evolve is if get back to it's ROOTS of teaching the game of football and depicting it in gameplay. Here are a few examples:

1) Zone vs. Man blocking schemes need to implemented properly (I should see Denver's lineman firing off in unison getting upfield and cut blocking in a zone blocking scheme) while defensive lineman and LB's fight to shed blocks and take on offensive lineman in order to stuff the running game.

2) A QB pocket should be implemented. DE's should get upfield and contain while OT's should kickstep out and ensure DE's do not have a direct line to the QB. The Guards and Center should hold their ground picking up anything up the middle while the RB's scan the line of scrimmage looking to chip block DE's or stone any blitzing LB's or DE's that may have leaked through. This will allow the QB to step up in the pocket and deliver passes. On rollouts the pocket should swing out with the QB allowing him to get outside of DE's. This is called moving the pocket which is used to counter defenses with strong pass rushers upfront.

3) Draws and screens should have reasonable success against blitzes and soft zone coverages. For example, if it's 3rd and 20 and the defense is in a quarter's package cover 4 I should be able to eat up a few yards on a draw. Or it's 2nd and 5 and the defense sends the weak and middle LB's on a blitz a screen to the RB should make the defense pay for being over aggressive.

4) Special Teams needs to be addressed. On kickoffs the receiving teams blockers should should come together (join hands) and form a wedge for the kick returner. On punts the gunners should get downfield and contain while the rest of the guys should block then cover the punt by running in their respective kick cover lanes.

5) Red Zone Offense. In the red zone the passing game should allow you to throw fades to bigger wideouts and fade stops also known as the back shoulder throw. The defense should have to dedicate a safety or LB to elite WR's like Randy Moss and T.O. inside the redzone. Leave your 5'9 180lb non-lockdown corner on an island against an elite WR and watch me work em! On goaline running plays defensive lineman and offensive lineman should be submarine blocking. With the penetration advantage going to the front who has the lowest pad level. Defenses should have to commit hard to the run or pass on goaline situations in order to stop the offense. This is why playaction is so effective on the goaline. Which is why you see so many guys catch wide open passes from a yard out on Sunday's in the NFL.

6) Elite defenses should play tough and true to form forcing the offense to find creative ways to move the ball. If I am playing the Jags I should have a tough time running the football down their throats. I should try to loosen them up with screens, quick passes, and matching my elite WR against a weaker corner. If I am facing the Giants I should have to account for the devastating front four pass rush by leaving in RB's and TE's to block(max protection). If I am playing Chicago I should be attacking the soft spots of the Cover 2 scheme. Basically I should go into every game with an offensive gameplan tailored to move the ball against the specific defense I am facing.

7) Weather should affect the way a game is played. Players should move and react differently on a wet or frozen field thus affecting the way one calls a game offensively and defensively. Come to Soldier Field in a blizzard in January you better be able to run the ball because passing 90% of the time should prove to be quite difficult and lead to some critical 3 and outs.

8) Homefield advantage should affect the game as well especially in the playoffs. If I am the Pats I should dred having to go on the road to face Indy in the dome. Crowd noise should force me to get out the huddle quick offensively and definsively so I can have time to make adjustments at the line. When I steal a win on the road against an elite team I want to feel mentally fatigued(along with happiness) because I have had to play the game of my life to move on to the next round. In the playoffs each game should get progressively harder to win.

Now throw in some presentation, good commentary, interactive sidelines, refs, chaingangs, fieldgoal nets, atmosphere and we would be set. Football is a chess match and should be treated as such. Until Madden gets back to it's roots forcing people to think their way through a game then Madden will continue to lose it's way. As consumers with the power of NG consoles and after playing Madden 09 this thread should be the benchmark on how we judge EA's efforts to depict the NFL as we know it today through a video game.

SageInfinite · 05-05-2008, 09:29 AM

Great Post.

Why can't you work for EA?

Sausage · 05-05-2008, 09:40 AM

Quoting Rashad19"I feel the only way Madden is going to evolve is if get back to it's ROOTS of teaching the game of football and depicting it in gameplay. Here are a few examples"

More true words couldn't be spoken. This is how I have been feeling, don't get me wrong Madden has some strategy, but not actual football strategy..If I tried to explain it probably wouldn't make sense.

BrianFifaFan · 05-05-2008, 09:54 AM

Brilliant post! You're exactly the kind of guy that Tiburon should be picking the brains of.

And here's the truth. None of this being implemented would detract from the game being "fun." It's all AI subroutines that you don't have to control. You still only have to get your timing down, and develop of better understanding of the game of football as to how to approach the game. I would hope that this would't offend the tourney crowd. The guys who stright chesse and glitch to win, I don't care about their opinion......

Rashad19 · 05-05-2008, 10:01 AM

SageTheInfinite...glad to see there are others out there who feel the same way I do about the direction the game should be heading. I consider myself to have an above average football IQ because I learned the game at a pretty high level(former Div-1A football player) so I look at Madden or any other football game from that perspective. To be totally honest with you it scares me to think of what would happen if myself and 10 others like me had the opportunity to sitdown with a game developer and create a blueprint for true sim football game.

SageInfinite · 05-05-2008, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Briankingsfan


	Brilliant post! You're exactly the kind of guy that Tiburon should be picking the brains of. And here's the truth. None of this being implemented would detract from the game being "fun." It's all AI subroutines that you don't have to control. You still only have to get your timing down, and develop of better understanding of the game of football as to how to approach the game. I would hope that this would't offend the tourney crowd. The guys who stright chesse and glitch to win, I don't care about their opinion......

. You're exactly right. This wouldn't make the game less fun. I know Gran Turismo isn't an exact sim(no damage model) but it's pretty realistic and still sells millions. You have to make people adjust to your game while making it accessible to make that adjustment. Tiburon does not have to dumb the sport down to attract people. Make it look and play as realistic as possible with a simple control mode, and if people wanna get deeper add a sim mode. It's that simple. I think it's either laziness or lack of direction(I'll take the latter).

SageInfinite · 05-05-2008, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rashad19


	SageTheInfinite...glad to see there are others out there who feel the same way I do about the direction the game should be heading. I consider myself to have an above average football IQ because I learned the game at a pretty high level(former Div-1A football player) so I look at Madden or any other football game from that perspective. To be totally honest with you it scares me to think of what would happen if myself and 10 others like me had the opportunity to sitdown with a game developer and create a blueprint for true sim football game.

I'll tell you what would happen, 1 of the best football games to ever see the light of day, that's what I think

.

BrianFifaFan · 05-05-2008, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sausage


	Quoting Rashad19"I feel the only way Madden is going to evolve is if get back to it's ROOTS of teaching the game of football and depicting it in gameplay. Here are a few examples" More true words couldn't be spoken. This is how I have been feeling, don't get me wrong Madden has some strategy, but not actual football strategy..If I tried to explain it probably wouldn't make sense.

Yeah you make sense perfectly without even explaining it. Problem is that Madden players have adapted their games to be good at Madden, not football. And that's not to be insulting. It's just that Madden doesn't accurately portray football well enough to bring true football knowledge to bear successfully. As a matter of fact, the "sim" gamer is always at a disadvantage to the "Madden" expert. The expert knows how the game moves, and what works in Madden as well as what doesn't. The cheeser takes it to the next level with the use of built in coding flaws that can be exploited without respect for the integrity of the fundimentals of the actual game that we're supposed to be playing. I would have to say that there are Tourney gamers who would verge of the fine line of being "cheesers." Of course they use the excuse that it is just a game or you need to learn to play better. I might not be able to beat them and really don't care to prostitute myself and love of football. But lets discuss the real game and their understanding of it and why Maddens more arcadish elements wouldn't work in High School ball, I think I'll win that contest........

05-05-2008, 09:29 AM	#2
SageInfinite Stop The GOAT Talk OVR: 40 Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: NJ Posts: 11,916	Re: Back to Our Roots! Great Post. Why can't you work for EA? __________________ http://twitter.com/sageinfinite SageInfinite Bandcamp https://sageinfinite.bandcamp.com/album/interminable https://soundcloud.com/sageinfinite Hidden Language Video Feat. Grandmilly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hf5nW4rGTFM #makethemaddenforumgreatagain

05-05-2008, 09:40 AM	#3
Sausage MVP OVR: 18 Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Virginia	Re: Back to Our Roots! Quoting Rashad19"I feel the only way Madden is going to evolve is if get back to it's ROOTS of teaching the game of football and depicting it in gameplay. Here are a few examples" More true words couldn't be spoken. This is how I have been feeling, don't get me wrong Madden has some strategy, but not actual football strategy..If I tried to explain it probably wouldn't make sense.

05-05-2008, 09:54 AM	#4
BrianFifaFan Semi-retired OVR: 50 Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Dayton,OH Posts: 4,144 Blog Entries: 7	Re: Back to Our Roots! Brilliant post! You're exactly the kind of guy that Tiburon should be picking the brains of. And here's the truth. None of this being implemented would detract from the game being "fun." It's all AI subroutines that you don't have to control. You still only have to get your timing down, and develop of better understanding of the game of football as to how to approach the game. I would hope that this would't offend the tourney crowd. The guys who stright chesse and glitch to win, I don't care about their opinion...... __________________ Note to Tiburon Marketing: A great product sells itself, no "back of the box" features required! (See Fifa...)

05-05-2008, 10:01 AM	#5
Rashad19 Pro OVR: 9 Join Date: May 2008	Re: Back to Our Roots! SageTheInfinite...glad to see there are others out there who feel the same way I do about the direction the game should be heading. I consider myself to have an above average football IQ because I learned the game at a pretty high level(former Div-1A football player) so I look at Madden or any other football game from that perspective. To be totally honest with you it scares me to think of what would happen if myself and 10 others like me had the opportunity to sitdown with a game developer and create a blueprint for true sim football game.

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