Followup on the Gang Tackling Response

[Joborule]

Ian, have you consider implementing a struggle system? Madden 07 on the last gen had this somewhat. You've got the break out of tackle ordeal mostly sorted out with pulling jukes, but when those may not be suitable to use, it's power against power time. The ball carrier wants to drive his legs forward to get some extra yards, and the defender wants to drive the ball carrier back, setting up a battle. That is why gang tackles are so much more frequent in football and why there is not too many one on one tackles that we see in Madden, because there's time for other defenders to come by and the ball carriers are beasts and can keep trucking in a favorable match up.

In madden there seems to be too many role the dice tackles. Either you break the tackle or you don't (with now a very small timeframe to breakout). There is no gladiator battles where the ball carrier may drive forward slowly if he has the strength, or a stalemate. We don't even see the times where a ball carrier doesn't fall down but gets driven backwards by a defender or more. If the game of madden is lacking one thing, it's the battles after the collisons. However with the Total Control System, we're working towards that.

If Madden can make this happen. Maybe even allow us to control where we want the player momentum to go, this can be a really good feature. Why I say this is because it can work in time management as well as getting better position. Lets say a defender wants to stop the time. The defender, even if he's getting driven back, can try to steer the ball carrier towards the sidelines. The running back can try to counter and steer towards the middle of the field. This struggle system can also help with bring back the break tackle by juke time window again if you can position and strength to pull it off.

Or you can make the guy fall of due to the ball carrier manhandling the defender.

[adfletch71]

Hey Ian,

Thanks for your interaction with the fans of football here at OS. I'm a 2k fan, but i have seen improvement with madden09. All i want is to have the same caliber of gameplay that 2k5 gave. No it wasnt perfect, but the overall gameplay and presentation was nowhere close to being matched, even today. I have a question for u though, in 2k5 they had the QB evade option, where u could get away from a defender. "Its frustrating if u have a non-mobile QB, when the rush comes u have to pass the ball or get sacked when u not ready to throw". Can madden do this and get this in the game, or is it not enough time and maybe next year version can add this? Also i know u not in the department of presentation, but can u talk to those guys and maybe have one of them start coming to the forums to see what the fans want. They really need to look at nfl2k5 presentation with espn and not duplicate it, but take what they see and improve off of it. Take the crowds for intense, u can see how they react to situation and they show it. U see them boo players, walk out of the statium and celebrate. I love football, and i just want a solid game to play. Not all these gimmicks. I pray that madden gets better, because its all we have right now. Please, dont let your guards down because u the only NFL title. People around the country are watching what u do, and believe me, they will speak out against u, if u dont produce. I'm one of them and will not except u slacking off. Prove me wrong EA!!!!!!!!!

[BrianFifaFan]

Quote: Originally Posted by adfletch71

Hey Ian, Thanks for your interaction with the fans of football here at OS. I'm a 2k fan, but i have seen improvement with madden09. All i want is to have the same caliber of gameplay that 2k5 gave. No it wasnt perfect, but the overall gameplay and presentation was nowhere close to being matched, even today. I have a question for u though, in 2k5 they had the QB evade option, where u could get away from a defender. "Its frustrating if u have a non-mobile QB, when the rush comes u have to pass the ball or get sacked when u not ready to throw". Can madden do this and get this in the game, or is it not enough time and maybe next year version can add this? Also i know u not in the department of presentation, but can u talk to those guys and maybe have one of them start coming to the forums to see what the fans want. They really need to look at nfl2k5 presentation with espn and not duplicate it, but take what they see and improve off of it. Take the crowds for intense, u can see how they react to situation and they show it. U see them boo players, walk out of the statium and celebrate. I love football, and i just want a solid game to play. Not all these gimmicks. I pray that madden gets better, because its all we have right now. Please, dont let your guards down because u the only NFL title. People around the country are watching what u do, and believe me, they will speak out against u, if u dont produce. I'm one of them and will not except u slacking off. Prove me wrong EA!!!!!!!!!

U tell em'

[Phobia]

Quote: Originally Posted by Joborule

Ian, have you consider implementing a struggle system? Madden 07 on the last gen had this somewhat. You've got the break out of tackle ordeal mostly sorted out with pulling jukes, but when those may not be suitable to use, it's power against power time. The ball carrier wants to drive his legs forward to get some extra yards, and the defender wants to drive the ball carrier back, setting up a battle. That is why gang tackles are so much more frequent in football and why there is not too many one on one tackles that we see in Madden, because there's time for other defenders to come by and the ball carriers are beasts and can keep trucking in a favorable match up. In madden there seems to be too many role the dice tackles. Either you break the tackle or you don't (with now a very small timeframe to breakout). There is no gladiator battles where the ball carrier may drive forward slowly if he has the strength, or a stalemate. We don't even see the times where a ball carrier doesn't fall down but gets driven backwards by a defender or more. If the game of madden is lacking one thing, it's the battles after the collisons. However with the Total Control System, we're working towards that. If Madden can make this happen. Maybe even allow us to control where we want the player momentum to go, this can be a really good feature. Why I say this is because it can work in time management as well as getting better position. Lets say a defender wants to stop the time. The defender, even if he's getting driven back, can try to steer the ball carrier towards the sidelines. The running back can try to counter and steer towards the middle of the field. This struggle system can also help with bring back the break tackle by juke time window again if you can position and strength to pull it off. Or you can make the guy fall of due to the ball carrier manhandling the defender.

It is a nice idea, but with pre-canned animations this will pretty darn hard to make happen. I think some of the ideas people have are excellent, but they just don't sit well with the tech madden has now. Until madden moves in a more Physic based playground then some of these ideas we won't see.

But I am also fine with pre-canned animation if everything is done right. Like madden is looking really really good right now. Plus look at APF, their animations were/are still the best in the biz. It has so many that a year later playing that title and I have still seen new animations (randell cunninham sig miss the sack animation).

[Pared]

Quote: Originally Posted by Phobia

It is a nice idea, but with pre-canned animations this will pretty darn hard to make happen. I think some of the ideas people have are excellent, but they just don't sit well with the tech madden has now. Until madden moves in a more Physic based playground then some of these ideas we won't see. But I am also fine with pre-canned animation if everything is done right. Like madden is looking really really good right now. Plus look at APF, their animations were/are still the best in the biz. It has so many that a year later playing that title and I have still seen new animations (randell cunninham sig miss the sack animation).

Yes but what he's saying is Madden had it on the PS2. You would have to tap X to try and fight for more yards if you were locked in tackle. Wouldn't happen all the time but it was there.

[Phobia]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pared

Yes but what he's saying is Madden had it on the PS2. You would have to tap X to try and fight for more yards if you were locked in tackle. Wouldn't happen all the time but it was there.

Yea I understood. I was refering to the "guiding" momentum and choosing direction to push ball carriers. The amount of animations to handle all the different options would almost be to great.

The fight system I remember well, but it was not that much different than the system they are putting in now with the "choosing" a escape route out of tackles. It is just not based on who can tap a button quicker. Which I find is better for everyone across a broader range of age and skill levels

[twthomas]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rocky

This is a great video to show what I have posted a couple of times in the past also.
One thing that I really dislike in Madden and most video football games, to include 2K5 and APFB is that ridiculous RB hitting a brick wall when he runs into a collapsing line. 99% of all RB's who hit this wall do one of about thre things. The Collapse forward to try to gain something, they slip through a crack or somehow miraculously hurdle, juke or something... or they put a hand on someones back and push them through or step to the side after putting that hand up.

Very seldom but sometimes I see this sidestep in Madden 08.

Much more often I see some Jerry Lewis crazy spin sideways and it completely disorients my RB and I get some crappy suction animation trip-up tackle.

I would rather only get 1 yard or lose 1 yard and see a realistic animation instead of looking like some drunk dude running full tote into a brick wall.

And by the way, Ian, you're awesome!