Negative feedback thread.

[BrianFifaFan]

I'm hoping that this could be a single thread where guys can express everything that they have problems with Madden/Tiburon/EA and the exclusive deal. Ian said he wanted to have feedback both good and bad, but too many threads that should be informational instead are becoming debate threads. It makes it very hard to keep topics on point and I'm sure that it would be easier for the developers if the negative feedback that they might actually want to see and read would be in one handy little thread. Guys could vent and opine about what is obviously still a lingering issue. Guys could get their beef off their chest in here and stick to ideas and suggestions in the other threads. Would that be cool with everyone?

[maddenps2]

Not really, as long as people don't go overboard I think it's only fair that people can express their indivdual opinion, negative or positive without being confined to one post.

Should we make one post where people have to put all their positive comments. What about comments that are in-between positive and negative. What if slightly negative, where does it go than?

Big long, posts, are hard to read, unorganized, and quite frankly I wouldn't want to sift, or make other people sift through posts to find other peoples view-points.

They usually end up being a jumbled, unorganized mess, that hard to follow, and something I wouldn't even want to post in, because most likely, not many people would read or respond and interact.

I really think your defeating the idea of a discussion board if people can't express their ideas and varied opinions, as long as they keep posts within reason and aren't flaming.

[BrianFifaFan]

Quote: Originally Posted by maddenps2

Not really, as long as people don't go overboard I think it's only fair that people can express their indivdual opinion, negative or positive without being confined to one post. Should we make one post where people have to put all their positive comments. What about comments that are in-between positive and negative. What if slightly negative, where does it go than? Big long, posts, are hard to reed, unorganized, and quite frankly I wouldn't want to sift, or make other people sift through posts to other peoples view-points. I really think your defeating the idea of a discussion board if peolle can't express their ideas and opinions if they keep posts within reason and aren't flaming.

I feel what you're saying and I have my viewpoints both good and bad about all of the issues I mentioned. I'm just bringing up a point that many of these discussions segue into other feelings about EA being lazy, no choice, etc. I'm just hoping that guys can keep those kinds of feelings and stuff in here. And stick to the issues in the other threads. Or not making threads like " what's the fuss about" that are really just opportunities to vent, anyway. It's the same mindset in the "Ian I have an idea" multiple types of threads that should be in the Q&A or Wishlist threads. We just have too many threads and it's hard to get through all of them, as the board has grown very cluttered. I've made a few threads myself.

I hope you feel what I'm trying to get across here. Even the guys who are underwhelmed or skeptical should have their say. There's a lot of legitimacy in the concerns/complaints. I'm just saying that it needs to be more neat and tidy. For the mods, developers and honestly, for the general peace. The fanboys should have a place and the critics, but the two probably won't peacefully co-exist. We are both voices that give valid viewpoints that hopefully will lead us all where we need to go. I'm just saying, as a "fanboy," I don't like going into a thread like "in the defense of Madden" and saying something positive, only to have the naysayers start to spew "They're liars!"
Sure it drives discussion, but in a devisive way. And don't let me start about the "Devil's Advocate" types. That's just unhealthy how they just like to fan flames and argue just watch in glee at the drama that insues. I'll agree that message boards are a place where iron can sharpen iron, but we should respect one another as well. It doesn't have to be negative to be entertaining.And I really do believe that we should have some order as to effectively get feedback to Ian and Co. That really should be a huge priority for this forum, this year. Peace, Brian

[Nza]

I'm not the most active OS'r, but is it that big of a problem? It sounds to me like you want to make threads specifically for random expressions of hate/love for EA and the Madden series that are unrelated to the topic, but most criticism and praise I see around here is quite relevant to the topic in question. It tends to be when it gets personal that things derail, but that can come about in any disagreement and is generally just an unfortunate part of Internet messageboards.

Also, keep in mind, while stuff like EA being lazy, not being knowledgeable enough on football, not caring about X user etc may not be directly related to specific topics, they are possible influences on a lot of issues in Madden and if a user feels they are relevant, it's hard to argue otherwise. Only the really lazy, extremely troll-ish posters would struggle to mould their criticisms so it's relevant to a topic if need be, so I'm not sure it would be all that effective and might just be more of a headache for the mods than it is now.

Honestly, I think OS is fine how it has been for years. I'd hate to see a point in time where critics are pointed to their own thread because a mod felt their post wasn't relevant enough to a topic. I don't think we really have serious issue with proper discussions around here.

[maddenps2]

Posts that contain obvious personal insults, flames and are filled with over the top banter are to be policed by the mods. The over zealous flaming posters can and will be penalized by mods using proper judgment.

Creating a centralized criticism thread won't stop these individuals from posting insults or making flame threads.

So making a centralized critical feedback thread is rather pointless, going overboard, gives these guys more power, and hurts many forum members, and individuals like me, who like madden but take a more critical viewpoint.

[BrianFifaFan]

Quote: Originally Posted by Nza

I'm not the most active OS'r, but is it that big of a problem? It sounds to me like you want to make threads specifically for random expressions of hate/love for EA and the Madden series that are unrelated to the topic, but most criticism and praise I see around here is quite relevant to the topic in question. It tends to be when it gets personal that things derail, but that can come about in any disagreement and is generally just an unfortunate part of Internet messageboards. Also, keep in mind, while stuff like EA being lazy, not being knowledgeable enough on football, not caring about X user etc may not be directly related to specific topics, they are possible influences on a lot of issues in Madden and if a user feels they are relevant, it's hard to argue otherwise. Only the really lazy, extremely troll-ish posters would struggle to mould their criticisms so it's relevant to a topic if need be, so I'm not sure it would be all that effective and might just be more of a headache for the mods than it is now. Honestly, I think OS is fine how it has been for years. I'd hate to see a point in time where critics are pointed to their own thread because a mod felt their post wasn't relevant enough to a topic. I don't think we really have serious issue with proper discussions around here.

I'm not gonna disagree with you, but this here is a unique situation. I'm actually not a "fanboy." I love 2k5 but, due to circumstances beyond my control, am a refugee trying to work toward getting the penultimate football game that we can all enjoy. So there has to be a way to have us all peacefully coexist. Normally the 2k heads would be put back in their forum, not to infringe upon the Madden fans enjoyment of their forum.

Now not to fling out accusations, but there are many who aren't ready to make nice and use every opportunity to be devisive and "stir the pot." Do their opinions have validity and a right to be heard, sure. But still not at the expense of those who are Madden fans. And, due to the passionate nature of said debates, it does get personal. And the cynical views get interjected at a high rate in many threads. Almost to the "trolling" level. (IMO) This is still a Madden forum, not a venting place for the disenfranchised. But I want to say one thing, my idea for this whole thread was to help initiate a constructive feedback tool for Ian and others at EA to see that there are a great many numbers of unhappy gamers, be it over the NFL deal and the resulting lack of competition and who is felt to be at blame. I'm sorry but my feeling is that this forum should use this wonderful opportunity to help in the moulding of Madden. So yeah, I'm wanting this to be the "how can we help Ian help Madden" forum. For a minute this forum was a rich goldmine of ideas and was exciting. Now it seems like it's heading back to negativity and barbed one-liners.

I will make one very opinionated comment. Guys on here that talk to Ian like he's a waiter and their flunkie are foolish. If you want to exercise your rights, don't buy the game or call the BBB or EA Customer Service. I for one, will be highly irked if we lose this opportunity because you guys wanna act like this is the EA Boards or MM. Operation Sports is a classy joint. Let's keep it that way. Respect the man and what he's trying to do here. But we shouldn't waste his time or honestly, anybody's time, by derailing threads to push our negative and destructive agendas. The game is what it is this year. Over. Ian and Co. are making the most open honest interaction ever from any EA developer and are spreading the gospel that it works, contribute. The NFL deal is done until 2013 and they seem to be very pleased, get over it. Wanna ask the hard questions from a skeptical, cynical point of view? Put them in the right places and maybe you'll get the answer you want from the horse's mouth, kind of a negative Q&A.

I did wanna add one last thought. Ian, Phil and Simon have been very candid on this board. But still some guys don't believe them. Heck, Peter Moore has been candid on his Blog, much to the chagrin of many a PC gamer. Long story short, if you don't believe what they're saying, why bother? Life's waaaayyyy too short. Peace. ( I wasn't aiming this at you, Nza.)

[BrianFifaFan]

One final thought and I'm done for the night/morning. The threads that are the most active and viewed are the Q&A and "idea" threads. And they are the most exciting, as they have opportunity to bring about much-needed change. Be it ideas for OL/DL play, QB awareness or gang tackling, they have something of value to add. How about the "debbie downers" who have such a vocal way of voicing their displeasure put some work into "being part of the solution?" Cause otherwise you're just part of the problem. It really is not hard to criticise and arm-chair QB. Thinking about how to make it better in a realistic, real world context is the work, work Ian and all do every day......

[Nza]

If a "negative Q&A" thread is made, that's fine, but I don't feel it should be the only avenue for negativity where it is warranted, and how you define that is iffy at best and realistically would only complicate matters. Not bad in theory, but not realistic in practice. I agree though, Ian and co should be respected, but I don't think the creation of a thread will deter trolls from being a troll, mods will just have to do what they've always done plus more maintaining the new thread.

I see where you're coming from, but it's somewhat contradictory - the creation of a thread where constructive negativity can be posted won't deter those with destructive intent from doing what they do as they have little desire for constructive criticism. The only thing it could do is remove constructive criticism where it is suitable, which is not very desirable. Ultimately I think removing agendas from threads can only be done on a case by case basis and not in a widespread sense. With the presence of EA here there will be negativity and pettyness, and I'm not sure there is any real way to filter that as a whole.