To be a PRO, or to not be a PRO? WOW!!!!

[Dianwei32]

Quote: Originally Posted by LAKE4742

LOL Okay, but still, take a look at the vids, and tell me they have absolutely no substance to them. I mean, that horrible 2-in-1 tackle (what is this?) is gone...on Pro. Double-hit tackling is possible....on Pro. But, I'm not going to put the CPU sliders at 100, I'll put them at 75. I don't know if I'll happily trade realistic stats for realistic gameplay. It's obvious we shouldn't have to. But I'll try them.

I've looked at all the video's multiple times, and I even played a good number of games (probably 5-10) with the slider set he uses, but I rarely, if ever, saw the stuff he was talking about. I've seen plenty of double hit tackling on my custom sliders (I'm using a slight variation of dfos81's Zero Sliders). He does what anyone does who wants to try and make a point, run a given play or type of play over and over until you get it to happen the way you want. It may take 100 tries, but if you run a certain play enough then you could get animations and replays to make a case for anything.

Also, what is the "horrible 2-in-1 tackle"?

Quote: Originally Posted by mavfan21

Agreed! What I WISH people would appreciate is how easy it is for all of us to play this game as we wish. It is the most customizable football game ever. The sliders work. Not sure why some people feel the need to tell us all what is "best". We all have our own idea of what is best. I bet there are a lot of people out there that play on rookie with sliders all the way to the left and win by 180 every game....who cares?

Thank you very much, I've been trying to say this a lot, but no one seems to listen. There is no unversal slider set that will work for everyone. I greatly appreciate all the work that the guys designing slider sets are doing, but it's really up to each individual to find a set that works for them and lets them play the way they want to play.

[Dianwei32]

Quote: Originally Posted by LAKE4742

I think if you watch the first vid, there is no way you can't be amazed at how much better the A.I. and blocking is, compared to what happens on higher difficulties.

I went back and watched the first running game video, and found a problem with it right away, Versuz disguises it as "teamwork", but it's an example of bad blocking logic. When Woody (the RT) and Keller (the TE) block the DE, the DE (Haloti Ngata I belive) managed to shed both of them and had to be picked up by the FB. Versuz says it is "teamwork at it's finest", but anyone who has played football (especially on the OL) knows that is not how that play should have turned out.

The inital double-team was good, but afterwards Woody should have squared up on Ngata and freed Keller to go to the second level and block Ray Lewis. Essentially, Keller is supposed to block Lewis, but he throws a quick hit on Ngata to give Woody enough time to get in position to block him 1-on-1. The FB should not have needed to help at all, the FB should have been able to go right past all of them and throw a block on either the SS or CB to spring the HB for a touchdown.

Another problem is how the RG blows by the DT without touching him. Yes, Alan Faneca is supposed to block the DT when he pulls, but the RG should at least throw a hand onto him, you NEVER give a D-linemen free release to go charging into the backfield, even if there is someone pulling who is supposed to trap block him.

[LAKE4742]

Quote: Originally Posted by Football4Natic

maybe your definition of realistic is different then mine because on pro there is no challenge and ratings do not matter because if i can beat the best team in the game with the worst team with ease then how are ratings mattering.

Well, maybe I just suck at the game then. But, I don't control every player, either. But, that's something else I don't understand. Users (cheesers) try and control every player, run around like crazy people, making all kinds of unrealistic plays, and then ask why the game's so easy? LOL

Quote: Originally Posted by Dianwei32

Also, what is the "horrible 2-in-1 tackle"?

That's where the player goes for the ball, misses, but adjusts in mid-air to make a tackle. On Pro, the animation follows through. Noone has demonstrated otherwise.


Perhaps I never had much of a reason to complain to begin with. I'm playing Minnesota right now, and not having the easiest time against them. But, they aren't exactly "cheating" to compete, either. Again, the ratings (and physics) seem most accurate at this level (CPU also at 75). Just my .02.

[mdistefano]

putting it on pro makes no difference. doesn't pro just put the human sliders at 75 and then he puts the cpu sliders at 100? so, is he saying that everything will be out of whack if you drop something from that base set to 74 for human or 99 for cpu? it will change it to custom but it will basically be the same. I am not sure I agree with that. I tried his sliders and the game plays ok on pro but i agree, even if it looks good, i don't want my franchise to be 52-0, 40-7, etc, with my average qb throwing 5 tds a game, while my beast back running for 20 yards and 2 ypc in that span.

[Glorious Arc]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dianwei32

I went back and watched the first running game video, and found a problem with it right away, Versuz disguises it as "teamwork", but it's an example of bad blocking logic. When Woody (the RT) and Keller (the TE) block the DE, the DE (Haloti Ngata I belive) managed to shed both of them and had to be picked up by the FB. Versuz says it is "teamwork at it's finest", but anyone who has played football (especially on the OL) knows that is not how that play should have turned out. The inital double-team was good, but afterwards Woody should have squared up on Ngata and freed Keller to go to the second level and block Ray Lewis. Essentially, Keller is supposed to block Lewis, but he throws a quick hit on Ngata to give Woody enough time to get in position to block him 1-on-1. The FB should not have needed to help at all, the FB should have been able to go right past all of them and throw a block on either the SS or CB to spring the HB for a touchdown. Another problem is how the RG blows by the DT without touching him. Yes, Alan Faneca is supposed to block the DT when he pulls, but the RG should at least throw a hand onto him, you NEVER give a D-linemen free release to go charging into the backfield, even if there is someone pulling who is supposed to trap block him.

I was just about to post this. In football, unless someone completely blows their assignment, you never let a Dline go free. I would not have a problem with a Dline beating an Oline(on the chip block blowing up the play in the backfield) but in almost any m10 play were a player pulls the blocking logic is broken because the Oline lets the Dline run 3-5 yards into the backfield.

[TimLawNYC]

My first reaction to Versuz2's sliders and theories was close to ridicule. The one video that really made me think he might be onto something is the one where he puts the players into totally wrong positions (like Wes Welker on the O-line and the RG at wide receiver) on higher difficulty than Pro; this video really does appear to show that on All-Madden, player ratings don't matter at all and it's all CPU work. That's disheartening, because it means that your team's personnel (the whole "GM" facet of a franchise) doesn't matter at all, and the outcome of any play or game depends only on the action on the field. It's especially bad this year when EA kep saying that they worked to differentiate superstars from average players in this year's game; on All Madden there appears to be no real difference in the on-field performance of a 99 OVR player and a 64 OVR player.

[RyanMoody21]

The sliders are a toolbox EA gave us, with no instructions mind you, to fix the game for them.

It should play better out of the box, across difficulty levels. Difficulty should never be translated by simply decreasing or increasing your teams skill set.


Silders dont work online. Adaptive AI is broke offline.

So unless you play with "house rules", I fail to see how a slider set even matters.

Shame the guy has to put so much time and effort into the slider set to make up for what M10 lacks in game play.

[Argooos]

This is nothing new in the gaming industry. Game designers will design the game around a particular difficulty setting (in this case, Pro) and then have the CPU cheat on higher difficulties. The reason for this is usually that any other solution would generally require building a unique version of the game for each difficulty setting. That would be a lot of work. I don't like it but that's the way it usually is.

I agree that Madden should have some way other than cheating to increase the difficulty. Fatigue might be it, but cheating by the CPU seems to anger a lot of people. I don't think it would be a problem, though if the cheating was done in ways that it wasn't so noticeable.

And for the bad blocking in video example 1, I know that's not right, but from what I understand it's still better than All-Pro or All-Madden difficulty.

All that being said, I'm not really the type to worry about this kind of thing. I've played Madden so long that I'm used to glitchy player behaviour and I only care about the results of the games. If the results seem realistic that's fine with me.