Are Levels of play ruining gameplay?

[PGaither84]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pared

GAMERS are ruining gameplay. ONLINE FORUMS are ruining gameplay. There will always be that individual or small group of individuals that will argue to their death that "so and so should never happen." "This defies the laws of physics." "How can you even think this is a good idea?" Most individuals who buy sports games are jaded and unable to be pleased. They could take each and every one of those that have issues with the game, fix them to their liking and you'd see someone else step in and say, "This sucks, how could you make it like this." It's a cycle that seemingly will never be broken now. And it's extremely sad to see.

I'm not going to talk about "haters" Pared. I am only going to speak for those talking about game play issues.

When I read you words: "GAMERS are ruining gameplay. ONLINE FORUMS are ruining gameplay." That comes off as ignorant to me. And before you want to throw a ban hammer at me, look at the definition of ignorant: "lacking knowledge or comprehension of the thing specified" I am not trying to call you a name. I am saying that if you honestly think that Madden doesn't have a slew of game play problems and you think that gamers are blowing things out of perportion and that the forums are just a place for people to QQ over, then sir, you are mistaken. From broken pursuit angles [even players rated 99 in pursuit pursue the ball carrer incorrectly every time. Mistake in pursuit are one thing, a flaw in the pursuit angles is a flaw in game play] to psychic defensive back play, to poor blocking logic and general computer AI and awareness are all examples of flawed gameplay. None of which are a gamers fault or a forums fault.

If I am misunderstanding you and your point, then I apologize, however, that is exactly how your post came off to me. Specifically how you used capital letters to point the blame at gamers and online forums.

I agree with you when you say these two things:"Most individuals who buy sports games are jaded and unable to be pleased." and I would ammend it to games in general. Just look at how people play MMOs, and online FPSs. I just bought Bad Comapny Two and the forums there are filled with people crying over one thing or another.

The other thing I agreed with was: "It's a cycle that seemingly will never be broken now. And it's extremely sad to see." It is, but again, not just sports games. People complain. Get used to it. All we can really do is hope that MODS such as yourself do a good job of getting rid of the jerks that have nothing to contribute and are not trying to be constructive.

Lastly, when you say:"They could take each and every one of those that have issues with the game, fix them to their liking and you'd see someone else step in and say, 'This sucks, how could you make it like this.'" I agree that someone may come in and complain, I disagree that it would be that way for a lot of the problems Madden has. Who would complain about fixing pursuit angles? Likely the kid who can't run the ball well. I remember back in Madden 04 days going to a forums and participating in a thread on how to improve your rushing attack. No one complained that the linebackers and safety could contain you. If the game fixed AI logic for blocking, who would complain? Some kid saying he has a hard time getting pressure on the computer, or has a hard time stopping the computer from running the ball? We already have a hard time getting pressure on the computer becasue the line play is bad and real football stratagy doesn't work. If the computer can run the ball well behind good blocking it would be welcome. I think the last time I was killed by the computer's rushing attack was when Terrell Davis was still suiting up for the Broncos.

It is just as frustrating for me, as a gamer, to see someone be an apologist for the game as it may be for others to see constant complaints. The difference is that apologists often aren't rude and they don't call people names as much.

*prepares to get banned for trying to illsutrate my opinion in a civil manner. It's a sad state when a user even has to think/feel this way about their posts.*

[Pared]

Then I accept your apology. You're new here. People complained about the "precious" 2k football games all the time.

It's become the "thing to do." Make videos or write essays on a forum. Par for the course.

[Pared]

And I can't stop laughing that you're using previous Maddens as an example. The same Madden that was blasted at the time for being stagnant and "not as innovative" as its competitors.

Reminiscing is nice. Things are always so much prettier when we look back them.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Quote: Originally Posted by PGaither84

^ Fail. Do you not know this is a game of matchups? Just for example, if you have a dominate defensive end and I have an average tackle to block him, maybe I should call plays and make pre-snap adjustments to have a back or TE chip/double team that end to contain him. Dominate WR? Double team him and make you beat me with your other WRs. Strong passing attack but weak run game, or vise versa? Commit to one to try and take it away and make you beat me with your weakness. The really good teams, like the Colts, Patriots, Saints, Vikings, etc. should beat you if you are playing with a weaker team. At least, if you beat them, it should be because you out coached them. Right now in Madden it really doesn't matter to me if I take the Lions or Rams against the computer or if I use a high rated team. Football isn't being expressed correctly most of the time in Madden and the difference between taking a bad team and a good team is how badly I beat the computer by.

Exactly what I want to experience when playing a game The thrill of putting the right game plan to defeat the better and more talented team. It can be done.

I would love to feel the same way I do when playing MLB the Show. Im a New Yorker so yes I use the Yankees, but in the show using the Yankees does not guarantee a win every single game or even a win against a lesser talented team. I have to prepare and play the game correctly. I must execute the game of baseball, and most importantly every game is a whole new experience, and unpredictable.

Thanks for your post

Quote: Originally Posted by dmick4324

Right now in Madden every teams identity is pretty much the same. There's no variation that gets me pumped to play next weeks game. We shouldn't have to fiddle with sliders for hours before we can play the game. And we also shouldn't have to come up with house rules to enjoy the game.

Exactly you should feel like this weeks game you must prepare for this player , and this matchup, and the teams strength and weakness, not just go into the game and use the same plays that works regardless of the team you face.

In Madden once you find your plays that work , it becomes so predictable, and this is why Im stating a realism setting would be amazing. Well what my idea is of a realism setting.

I wish they would consider this and I would love to be there explaining to them in detail how to execute this along with some of the great thoughts that were put in this thread.

[kcarr]

Quote: Originally Posted by WeAreAllWitnesses

If players only performed based on their ratings, you literally couldn't win with a team that was worse than the team you're playing against. The higher rated OVR team would always win, because they have better rated players.

This is not at all true. While there are teams with different total talent levels at the nfl level you never really get a situation where every player on one team is going to be better than the player they are matched up against or teams without any strengths or weaknesses. For instance detroit, while being one of the weakest teams in overall talent, has calvin johnson who most teams are going to have to really work to stop. Also, pettigrew is a solid TE and that leaves low quality wrs still getting decent matchups due to having to concentrate on those 2. Also, stafford has a huge arm and can really beat a D if they don't double calvin. Smith is also good enough that in the right situation he can run the ball. Defensively they may be weak but their decent LB corp can get them through.

Cleveland on the other hand has cribbs who is dynamic and they have some decent young receivers who can make plays. They might be as void of offensive talent as anyone at the skill positions but they aren't completely without weapons. Also, they have a decent oline and can run the ball decently well.

Any team has the talent that if you outcoach the opponent even if ratings truely matter you would still have a chance. Sure, it would be harder with weaker teams, but shouldn't that be the case?

[kjcheezhead]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pared

And I can't stop laughing that you're using previous Maddens as an example. The same Madden that was blasted at the time for being stagnant and "not as innovative" as its competitors. Reminiscing is nice. Things are always so much prettier when we look back them.

Nah man, Madden on ps2 was better. It had more presnap adjustments to help against money plays like shading, individual bump, etc. Now as it is on Nex-gen, if I got slow dbs and I wanna play off Deshawn Jackson, I gotta play off every wr and the te as well. I'll either get murdered with underneath stuff or burned by Jackson.

The controls aren't as responsive either. Here's a test to show what I mean. Go into the minigames on ps2. I can perfect my passing game to place the ball right inside rings on the route, I can perfect my pass defending skills with swat ball and get to where I can be a shut down corner. Now try it on PS3/Xbox360. No control on your passes, on defense your only hope is to let the cpu control the defender until the ball is on it's way and then hit the swat/int button. If you move the defender your prob gonna get burned.

Now finally, the Franchise mode is much deeper and more entertaining. Progression, trade logic, stats, Tony Bruno vs Extra Point...everything is better.

Not to mention John Madden/AL Michaels were 10x better than Chris and Tom.

PS2 Madden 08 is hands down better than PS3 Madden 10 in everything but graphics imo and it's not nostalgia talking cause I was playing Madden 08 just last year cause 09 was so bas on PS3.

[Tyrant8RDFL]

Quote: Originally Posted by kjcheezhead

Nah man, Madden on ps2 was better. It had more presnap adjustments to help against money plays like shading, individual bump, etc. Now as it is on Nex-gen, if I got slow dbs and I wanna play off Deshawn Jackson, I gotta play off every wr and the te as well. I'll either get murdered with underneath stuff or burned by Jackson. The controls aren't as responsive either. Here's a test to show what I mean. Go into the minigames on ps2. I can perfect my passing game to place the ball right inside rings on the route, I can perfect my pass defending skills with swat ball and get to where I can be a shut down corner. Now try it on PS3/Xbox360. No control on your passes, on defense your only hope is to let the cpu control the defender until the ball is on it's way and then hit the swat/int button. If you move the defender your prob gonna get burned. Now finally, the Franchise mode is much deeper and more entertaining. Progression, trade logic, stats, Tony Bruno vs Extra Point...everything is better. Not to mention John Madden/AL Michaels were 10x better than Chris and Tom. PS2 Madden 08 is hands down better than PS3 Madden 10 in everything but graphics imo and it's not nostalgia talking cause I was playing Madden 08 just last year cause 09 was so bas on PS3.

Your 100% correct on everything you touched on here. Last gen Madden had so much more tools to use, and it was awesome.

If you want a very sharp version of Madden 08 get it for the PC. The game looks amazing at resolution 1920 x 1080. It looks awesome. Plus on the PC they have mods so u can have the new fields ,uniforms ,and rosters.

That is one thing they should bring back from last gen, and that is all the on the field features , and gameplay controls. Bring it back exactly the way it was.

I love telling one db to bump and the other to back off. That helped a lot when I went man to man on a trips. It would help from the Db's running into each other.

[kjcheezhead]

Quote: Originally Posted by Tyrant8RDFL

Your 100% correct on everything you touched on here. Last gen Madden had so much more tools to use, and it was awesome. If you want a very sharp version of Madden 08 get it for the PC. The game looks amazing at resolution 1920 x 1080. It looks awesome. Plus on the PC they have mods so u can have the new fields ,uniforms ,and rosters. That is one thing they should bring back from last gen, and that is all the on the field features , and gameplay controls. Bring it back exactly the way it was. I love telling one db to bump and the other to back off. That helped a lot when I went man to man on a trips. It would help from the Db's running into each other.

Individual bump was great. Playing against Stallworth or Moss I would play off them and shade the safties to their side and play tight on everyone else. Most gamers always sent them on fly routes so it worked like a charm.

I'll have to give Madden 08 on pc a try. I'm not much of a pc gamer usually. I prefer the consoles and my HDtv.