Is Speed Rating what's killing Madden

[KBLover]

Speed in and of itself isn't killing anything.

It's speed with the lack of some kind of acceleration factor.

Even a rudimentary "acceleration = how much delay before you start running" that was in FBPro would help make a difference. Then add in the AGI factor of losing speed while changing directions and then how long you were at that speed before going to top speed again (ACC) - it could really change some dynamics.

Also, the full speed scale COULD work, but it would be slicing time into really thin slices, like .01 of a second.

To answer your question about Bolt - a game should use his top speed and use acceleration to make his overall average time. For example, if his average speed was 20 mph and top speed 27 mph, that's a sign of slower acceleration, so that rating should drop. I would NOT use 23 MPH as Bolt's top speed. It is NOT his top speed, but his overall speed over the full distance - that's where ACC comes in.

Basically:

SPD = player's top speed. Don't tinker with this - if he's blazing OMGLOLWUT fast, then so be it.

ACC = time it takes to get to top speed. Use the delay before running if nothing else. If someone could cover 40 yds in 3.6 second at top speed, but does it in 4.3 - then there's the delay.

AGI = the same role as ACC, except it's used in situations where a change of direction is performed. A HB with high AGI would maintain his speed easily after a juke or be a good "one cut and go" type of runner. A WR with high AGI would make a good route runner for complex/multiple move routes (slant and go, out and up, post-corner)


So:

100 SPD, 0 ACC, 100 AGI - guy who changes directions without losing much of any speed, but takes a LONG time to get up to that speed. These are guys that might disappoint in the 40. You can see their speed, but they don't look like they "run hard" or have "good technique".

100 SPD, 100 ACC, 0 AGI - guy who's freaking fast and gets to top speed in a couple steps (very low delay), but if he has to change directions - he struggles mightily, making him just a good straight-line runner. This type of player will show well in the 40 - so a top 40 time would be a sign of SPD + ACC being high. AGI would be unknown since there's no changing direction in the 40.

0 SPD, 100 ACC, 100 AGI - slow as dirt, but at least gets up to his speed fast, and if he has to change directions, he does so easily and maintaining his speed. These types guys might have a decent 40 times and could be useful on the field, but might slip because they "look slow". These are the "sneaky fast" types (not with 0 SPD, of course, but lower SPD but high ACC and AGI)

Stuff like that would really change dynamics, imo.

And was done back in '98 heh

[bang911]

This is how the speed of a sprinter correlates to time. In madden it seems that they get to their peak too quickly, and stay at this maximum without any deviation. Sprinters are not even at their top speed after 4 seconds.

[Finsfan46]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

Speed in and of itself isn't killing anything. It's speed with the lack of some kind of acceleration factor.

My examples are just from the Combines event results. So everything is included in there, thats not just a top speed exercise...Everyone runs 40 yards, and they are timed to see how long it takes them to finish.....and the difference between the fastest and the slowest is still only 1 second.

Everyone in the NFL is Fast ! 300+ lb Linemen run 5.1 40's, that is .9 seconds slower than the fastest WR this year (and most years)

But for example in Madden, I can take a 55 overall rated WR or HB, but as long as he has a 90+ speed and accl ratings, I will make him look like an All-Pro just on the ability of getting him in the open field and running away from all the 80 speed rated LB's and Safties.

If the Fastest guy in Madden is rated 99....should the slowest really be 50 clicks down from that ? 50 clicks equals 1 second ?
With how I see the speed play out when I play Madden (especially the above example)....... I say that range is too big !

I would go out on a limb (not really, I have done this already) ...and say that if the Range changed to, 99 as the fastest and 80 for the slowest, the game would play alot different.

[xNYGx]

I like this thread. Hopefully the guys at EA take a look at this and maybe they can do something to tweak acceleration, and work on that speed threshold they have in Madden for us.

Which reminds me... for those of you playing OFFLINE, there is a slider which can make player's speed ratings play differently. I'm not sure many people are aware of that.

[jake125]

I agree with this thread, speed is king in Madden, all you have to do is build a team around fast players and you"ll be unstoppable. I'm tired of feeling like Al Davis whenever I draft only picking the fastest players.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Finsfan46

But for example in Madden, I can take a 55 overall rated WR or HB, but as long as he has a 90+ speed and accl ratings, I will make him look like an All-Pro just on the ability of getting him in the open field and running away from all the 80 speed rated LB's and Safties.

Well, there's more to that than just the SPD. Part of that is because the other ratings (including, say, CTH or AWR, if his OVR is that low) don't make enough difference either.

Quote: Originally Posted by Finsfan46

If the Fastest guy in Madden is rated 99....should the slowest really be 50 clicks down from that ? 50 clicks equals 1 second ? With how I see the speed play out when I play Madden (especially the above example)....... I say that range is too big !

It is too big to be practical. It COULD work. If 0 is, say 5.5 and 100 is 4.2, then each point would be worth .013 seconds.

So it would take 10 points to be worth a tenth of a second difference.

Yeah, too big to be worth big that big.

I'm sure 80 to 99 would work with the way it currently is working. But, slicing the time into smaller slices could work with the full scale as well.

That way 50 SPD wouldn't be worlds slower than 99 SPD and EA could not have to worry about learning a new rating scale when making rosters. 50 SPD would be about a half second slower if the whole scale represented a range of 1.5 seconds from fastest to slowest.

But, what I'm saying is that the speed rating is just 1/2 to 1/3 of the equation.

Like you and another person said, the 40 time is top speed + acceleration, yet you seem to be equating 40 time to just speed.

I think the fact SPD isn't married to ACC in making up how/why the player runs their 40 time is what's doing things in.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by xNYGx

Which reminds me... for those of you playing OFFLINE, there is a slider which can make player's speed ratings play differently. I'm not sure many people are aware of that.

Yep, and many think setting threshold over 50 for the reasons the OP mentioned works pretty well.

I think the idea is sound - but it seems the engine has some issues with it (again, sliders having to fight the engine as much as the players themselves )

[craxus]

The "engine", or the "speed" is wrong. completely wrong. No offense but this games physics are absolutely pathetic. This game is half and half. Half arcade half sim. Which never works period. The only way this game will ever be fixed is if they enforce some form of locomotion, and some form of field of view. As it stands now you can move like a something that physics can't effect and see things behind you. Speed would be less of an issue if quarter back can't see behind them or hit lt to throw a perfect pass.

Until this game decides to concentrate more on players skill, you know the things they work to earn, as apposed to talent, which at best earns you a Raiders starting Qb, at worst your Ryan Leaf.

Seriously, look at my sliders I posted and then realize my minimum score is 70, this game is nothing but rock paper scissors. Except for the flats, play cowboys and throw felix jones in as fb, yeah we have a colossal waste of time. seriously look at the ways people post about stopping the flats. They have to game plan for them. Only because no matter what the line backers are slower, than running backs.