Make Madden more arcade?

[ryan36]

Liqour, I'm acutally with you there. I WANT sim. I don't think they can do it. And certainly not within a year. I loved ps2 Madden. I wish they'd just string that code to these player models/graphics and be done with it. Since that's not possible, I'm looking for a short-term fix to make the game more fun next year.

Friends of Ian's and CD guys have said "there's a lot of code to slog through" and there are technical aspects that make the game very hard to tweak.

So if they can't build a new one, we're set for 4% improvement each year. I say just go with what they've got , take out some of the artificial/glitchy bandaids they've tried, and change directions.

You may not agree, but it's a fair opinion. I want sim, I don't think I'll get it next year, let's do something else

[ryan36]

Quote: Originally Posted by Crimsontide27

Each and every year they add a feature or two that usually doesnt work, fix it the next year, then remove it the following year. While saying the game is exactly the same from the early 90s is an exaggeration, the amount of change from year to year is usually pretty minimal. This will not ever change.

I completely agree with the part you've bolded. I'm saying they need to EXCEL in one area, and I don't feel gameplay is where it's gonna be

[Crimsontide27]

Quote: Originally Posted by ryan36

Not arcade presentation. authentic presentation, and admitting they don't have a completely sim game. If they can do sim, it'd have been done by now. I don't believe they can fix this game. When they have to pick between tuning play action, so you don't get sacked so much, and a surprise onside kick, that tells me their build is unworkable. Ian asked to make a completely new build, and was denied. So I feel this would be a better step...to let the game play true to it's original next gen build.

I will say this and leave it at that. Some of the devs that we talk about on here are my personal friends and Ill support them as friends forever. What goes on behind closed doors would baffle most of you.

In terms of overall budget, with the exception to marketing, Madden has a smaller one than quite a few of the other titles they make. These people work on a strict guideline that is approved by people above the developers that we talk about. At the end of the day its about making a product that sells just as well as the previous years without spending any more than absolutely necessary.

You would be suprised at how little time is actually spent working on "next years" sports titles. Guys get drug off to do work on other projects all the time because they know that if they release the exact same game as the previous year with updated rosters it will sell. There is no incentive to do better and its reflected in the attitudes of people at work day in and out. Folks are bored and tired, but the only way to keep their jobs is to shut up and fall in line with the rank and file.

[Gordy748]

Quote: Originally Posted by Crimsontide27

I will say this and leave it at that. Some of the devs that we talk about on here are my personal friends and Ill support them as friends forever. What goes on behind closed doors would baffle most of you. In terms of overall budget, with the exception to marketing, Madden has a smaller one than quite a few of the other titles they make. These people work on a strict guideline that is approved by people above the developers that we talk about. At the end of the day its about making a product that sells just as well as the previous years without spending any more than absolutely necessary. You would be suprised at how little time is actually spent working on "next years" sports titles. Guys get drug off to do work on other projects all the time because they know that if they release the exact same game as the previous year with updated rosters it will sell. There is no incentive to do better and its reflected in the attitudes of people at work day in and out. Folks are bored and tired, but the only way to keep their jobs is to shut up and fall in line with the rank and file.

I don't know any of the game developers but I know the gaming industry. I'm not surprised at all about this. Game development costs time. But a game monopoly means there is little incentive to improve the game. Without competing titles (and with a huge royalty fee to pay the NFL), it's in EA's interest to do as little work as possible on Madden.

Then there is the NFL itself. There's no doubt the rules are being changed and manipulated to make it easy for the offense. All else being equal, a high scoring game with big air passes is a lot more entertaining than a low scoring, ground based game. Likewise, they don't want hard hits because, well a player getting stretchered off every week is hardly entertainment, is it? So I have no doubt that certain things happen in a game because the NFL mandate it (e.g. hits, aggression, etc).

I think Ryan's idea is a good one but there's no way EA would do it. They'd be admitting that the second best selling sports game on the planet is light years behind the rest (even their own titles). That's too be a pill for their pride to swallow, no mater how much it makes sense.

[X12Celtics3]

I agree that admitting that the game is going to be closer to arcade no matter what may be better than what we are getting now, but I'd still prefer that they completely retooled the game to be more realistic and on par with NBA 2K or MLB: The Show. Hell, I don't even care if they take a year or two off from releasing the game (which they would never do)... if two years without Madden means that I'll get to play a decent game in 2012, then I'm all for it.

[spit_bubble]

Quote: Originally Posted by ryan36

...but instead of taking an arcade-ish original build and making it sim, wouldn't it be more fun if it were more true to its original design?

No.

As another poster said, if it doesn't have that chess match aspect to it, then it would get dull real quick.

Quote: Originally Posted by ryan36

...If it was just immersive , I could over look all the psychic DB stuff, for example . That's what I'm saying

I only just got Madden 11 a few days ago and yes, it needs to have more depth overall... To give you that feel that you are a part of something.

A while back I had an exchange with one of the developers here on these forums and explained to them that the game needs to have two things: depth/variety and authenticity. If you're seeing and hearing the same things over and over, if it's lacking depth/variety, it's going to be redundant and get old quick. If it's not true to the league and the sport, then it's not going to be authentic and no one is going to believe it.

I actually think Madden 11 does pretty well on the authentic side. In my short time with the game it feels like it plays a pretty decent game of NFL football. As far as depth... Not so much, I mean, only three games in and I'm already tired of seeing the same injury cutscene of the player holding his side while getting up... Along with all the other cutscenes come to think of it... The time out where a player gets water, the QB getting off the bus, etc.

I don't mind having the game be lean, in regards to making it more accessible for example, but if it doesn't have depth/variety and authenticity... Then it's going to suffer.

I don't think it should be a question of arcade versus sim, it should be a question of depth/variety and authenticity.

[carnalnirvana]

i strongly disagree with the original post. while i agree its missing alot of fundamentals its a great game against someone playing football and not cheesing..

that brings me to why i think there is hope for madden, when we play(sim) we play to the strengths of our team to win. the cpu has NEVER received such attention.... this imo is the single greatest flaw in madden. the cpu has no idea of player priority on offense or defense. and it makes the game stale after 2 games......

no IQ is requierd to win vs the cpu, this bores me to death and i am sure it turns off other users as well.... get tendencies, make the cpu play to its strengths and could have more fun.......

[guaps]

Madden 2005 was more arcade than the current-gen games, but that was how all sports games were back then. Now other sports games has moved to higher grounds, except a few titles, including Madden. Personally, I wouldn't even try the demo of Madden 12, if the developers said that they were going for (even more) arcade-style gameplay.

Also everybody has to remember that Tiburon has worked hard on getting rid of the arcade image that people have of last gen Madden. If Madden 12 then suddenly becomes more arcade then I don't see the developers being able to turn it back into a game that represents football in a realistic manner with the current-gen or next-gen. The ship would have sailed and EA would have to create a new franchise for realistic sim-style football, and I don't think EA's management would allow that. Madden is too strong a brand to turn it into an arcade game.

Personally, I've moved on to other sports games until some developer (Tiburon, NaturalMotion, Visual Concepts, anyone) get a football game right. I don't even need NFL teams and players, just proper gameplay. For me NHL 11 is a great example of that - most of the time I don't know a single player on the team that I am controlling, heck, they could all be made up for all I care, but the game is fun because the gameplay is solid, not arcade.