Problems and Solutions

[WFColonel56]

Quote: Originally Posted by tazdevil20

It seems to me that there is a camp out there to which all that matters is the end result. Did I win? Did my method work? For many of us, simulating the real NFL is what's most important. It seems to me that some folks would call FG block 10 times in the game if they knew it would stop their opponent. If the end goal is simply to always win no matter what then I don't see the real football in that, nor the joys of playing a game that is supposed to simulate my favorite sport.

That is understood..... But the problem is that actual football techniques can be used to cage exploits. And some people call it a work around but from my and tnt's perspective is that you are just using your controller as an way of communicating what you want to happen to the players on the field

[TNT713]

Quote: Originally Posted by Smoke6

Man, we get who the people are that get upset cuz they lose a game and blame cheat/glitch every time. Those guys are isolated and most people can see them coming a mile away. I dont just go out on a limb and call someone or something they did as glitchy, there is a site (like an app) for that. When I go to this site like WF and TNT, thats when I know for a fact that I have been glitched or the game exploited against me. I love how you guys hate to label things the way they are and at the sametime be a part of those sites I mentioned above. But I have a real test for you guys, I dunno how long this thread will be around but I can almost guarantee you the guys at thegamerslab.com will have the game before any of us and have exploits known and tested ready for the general publics online onslaught. WF knows this first hand and even some of the devs know these guys and have contact with them. When this happens, I dont wanna hear no more about the names we give glitches or describe a unreal like situation with this game. If anyone wants, they can visit the site now and see for themselves already. TNT is just sugar coating the fact that he plays madden ball as its very difficult to go into a game knowing you wont get cheated or whatnot. Level the playing field and get rid of these exploits and I guarantee you most people cant hang with SIM ballers.

Slow down... Who mentioned gamerslab? Am I a member of the forums there? Yes. Do I visit? A few times a month. Why? I run my own Madden website and link to at least 32 others. I draw the line as disparaging another Madden sites that provide legitimate services to Madden fans. For instance, you were able to visit and KNOW YOU WERE GLITCHED. That's a valid service.

If you want to have a separate discussion about the responsibility of Madden sites owners to gamers as a whole - Kool. I'm a solution minded guy - start a thread about the responsibility of Madden sites. I'll have plenty to add because I don't always agree with judgment calls of some Madden community site owners. It will surely be a heated and much needed thread.

We can debate whether the fringe areas are glitches, exploits, bad ai, bad user, etc... But I don't care where you go or who you talk to in any community:

NOBODY LIKES BLATANT GLITCHERS

Not me. Not you. I'm guessing even blatant glitchers don't like blatant glitchers.

That said, the people that "get upset cuz they lose a game and blame cheat/glitch every time," as you so aptly put it are not nearly as isolated as you think. Since the dawn of online play specifically, there have been newbies getting CRUSHED online and blaming glitches when it was their strategy that lost the game. They are everywhere.

I see 5 to 10 times the number of people upset about glitches that aren't, than I do blatant glitchers. This isn't some new dude either. I've played 6000 games against random challengers for the past 8 years. I'm a member of practically every Madden site you can think of today and practically every one you can remember. Same username - TNT713.

I've learned that guys who love to play Madden don't mind playing it well. Even if it takes a while to learn how to. They are teachable and soak up everything they can. If you want to know who the whiners are, watch to see who stops playing Madden the earliest, then watch the "I hate Madden" posts mount up. The guys that send the hate messages...

Problem thinkers outnumber solution thinkers - especially in forums. I'm a fan of the strategy section of sites. I find many lacking. What can I say... The world is NOT full of football geniuses. Even the ones that get paid to be, get POLY-WHOMPED sometime.

Seriously though, now is the best time to be an online Madden player... The fairweather fans have departed for other games and Madden isn't cool enough for the glitchers to hang around.

Right now, it's just Madden fans who love football and love playing Madden. It seems everyone is well groomed and ready for a strategic FIGHT, especially after 9PM EST.

If you hate the antics, avoid playing between 2:30-5:30PM EST. That's when the high school kids are home without the parents.

Later

[TNT713]

Quote: Originally Posted by tazdevil20

It seems to me that there is a camp out there to which all that matters is the end result. Did I win? Did my method work?

Honestly... Is there any other standard? At the end of the game, I always reflect on games more after a loss. It only natural if you are truly competitive in your heart - because it starts there first.

Quote: Originally Posted by tazdevil20

For many of us, simulating the real NFL is what's most important.

This too is my ultimate goal!!!

I simulate the NFL in everything I do without exception. All my 'workarounds' to communicate my EXACT instructions to players is designed to create NFL style coverages and pressure.

Quote: Originally Posted by tazdevil20

It seems to me that some folks would call FG block 10 times in the game if they knew it would stop their opponent.

If Jerry Glanville were a Madden player (and he might be), he just might use the FG Block as his "Gritz Blitz" adaptation. As far as I know, it's the only 11 man rush on the game.

Quote: Originally Posted by tazdevil20

If the end goal is simply to always win no matter what then I don't see the real football in that, nor the joys of playing a game that is supposed to simulate my favorite sport.

See... Here's where we depart. I'm tenacious by nature. (as if you couldn't tell by the discussion).

To me, the joy of playing football is trying to win. Whenever I've played football, since my brother's taught me the game, I've enjoyed TRYING TO WIN. Because I enjoy trying to win, games are fun even when I don't.

All my life I've known guys that played games for fun, but weren't concerned with winning. Football, Basketball, Pictionary, Curling (yes, Curling). If someone is keeping score, I'm trying to win. I don't think it's fun to play games and NOT try to win.

True story that illustrates the type of guy I competitor I am...

Quote:

When I was around 25 or so, my 6 year old niece and I were playing Connect 4. As expected, I was beating her like she stole from church. Won 25 games. She was getting really discouraged and I could see it. I said, we'll play one more. She wins. But she ain't happy. She starts crying. Being a man, I'm wondering When I ask her why she's crying, she says "You let me win." I look her in the eye, with 100% sincerity and say, "I NEVER LET ANYBODY WIN. You won because you beat me." We play 5 more. She goes 3 for the next 5 to finish 27-4 on the day.

That said, I don't cheat nor pull any cheap tricks. My brand of football is all about being balanced, three steps ahead, and finding my opponent's weakness and exploiting them early. Emphasis on my opponent's weakness, not the game weaknesses.

But I prefer to play against people that try to win just as hard as I do. I want the best my opponent can muster at all times, because that's what he's getting from me.

Honorable players play with the same universal code. Cheaters cheat. I can't stop cheaters from cheating, but I can WHOOP 'EM with NFL style football.

People ask me all the time - What do you do if someone does this?

To which I respond, "Same as you. I get beat by it til I figure something out."

LOL

Later

[hampshire2012]

Quote: Originally Posted by hampshire2012

Okay, I'm going to test a theory here. In week 3 of your franchise, you play the Lions. They start running a new formation with Calvin Johnson at TE and Brandon Pettigrew out wide. They use this new formation 5 times, for around 75 yards (15yrds per play) and score 4 times from various positions on the field. Would you consider that cheese/not sim/further evidence the madden developers have no idea what they are doing?

Essentially my point was that exchange Lions for dolphins, CJ for ronnie brown, TE for QB and Brandon Pettigrew for Chad Pennington and all I've described is the wildcat the patriots faced in 08.

Eventually teams learnt how to adjust to it to the point that is now a not really a factor.

Madden gives you the tools for that exact situation to happen - someone finds a something that works well and you need to work out how to stop it.

Yet IMO around 90% of madden players would come here and moan about the game if the situation I described happened, even though it is equivalent to something that happened in real life.

[carnalnirvana]

Quote: Originally Posted by hampshire2012

Essentially my point was that exchange Lions for dolphins, CJ for ronnie brown, TE for QB and Brandon Pettigrew for Chad Pennington and all I've described is the wildcat the patriots faced in 08. Eventually teams learnt how to adjust to it to the point that is now a not really a factor. Madden gives you the tools for that exact situation to happen - someone finds a something that works well and you need to work out how to stop it. Yet IMO around 90% of madden players would come here and moan about the game if the situation I described happened, even though it is equivalent to something that happened in real life.

i agree with you however, in madden there are angles and animations that dont respect the rules of physics and if i put a fast guy at TE on and out route he will get open better and faster THATS WHY PEOPLE COMPLAIN ABOUT THINGS LIKE WHAT YOU DESCRIBED

in real life all players respect physics AND HAVE ABILITY LIMITS......... IN MADDEN THEY RESPECT ANGLES and a post route in madden produces an animation that the AI cant cover so in an online game i can abuse that.......

in the nfl coaches do formations to surprise the opponent in madden people do things to abuse the programming......its not the same

[MJenness]

Quote: Originally Posted by carnalnirvana

i agree with you however, in madden there are angles and animations that dont respect the rules of physics and if i put a fast guy at TE on and out route he will get open better and faster THATS WHY PEOPLE COMPLAIN ABOUT THINGS LIKE WHAT YOU DESCRIBED in real life all players respect physics AND HAVE ABILITY LIMITS......... IN MADDEN THEY RESPECT ANGLES and a post route in madden produces an animation that the AI cant cover so in an online game i can abuse that....... in the nfl coaches do formations to surprise the opponent in madden people do things to abuse the programming......its not the same

well said.

[ANDROMADA 1]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

With all due respect... The expectation that anything in Madden will be done like real life is ludicrous. I'm sure no one in the NFL calls plays with a scrolling screen. The whole game is a workaround so we can play football with a stick and some buttons. I could literally make hundreds of references to differences between how things are done in the NFL and Madden, but I'm a SOLUTION MINDED GUY. In my previous life, I got paid to fix things. Didn't matter when, why, where, how, or who... it was my job to fix whatever or get it fixed. I carry that same approach into my Madden game. Every time I call a defense in the play call screen with the intention of changing an assignment to something that isn't in my playbook - it's a work around. Sometimes the workaround is a solution. Most of the time re-educating the user is the solution. Sometimes re-educating the user is a workaround. At the end of he day what matters is - Did it work? Later

I think you are taking what some people are saying too literal. Semantics. We ALL know its a video game and there are differences. The problem is there are just some things that go unaccounted for in Madden and it is very frustrating. I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned the pass arc or linebackers having 50 inch verticals while being able to swat the ball w/o even looking at it on a regular basis. What players in the NFL can do that? None that I know. Also your reference to fixing things seems a little off to me. Just b/c it is you job and you can fix something doesn't mean that you want to keep doing it when you know it is unecessary, especially if it is 2 or 3 in the morning and you've been "fixing" things for over 30 hrs straight. I know b/c I "fix" things in the medical community and that is just how it goes. There is no way I would carry that same effort into the video game world. It simply is not practical or realistic. At the end of the day we want to have fun playing a video game in a realistic manner as much as possible w/o having to do corny stuff to get the game to play better or to "fix" something that we perceive to be programmed wrong from the get go. I enjoy Madden too, but in a structured environment with mature reliable gamers.

[WFColonel56]

can i post youtube videos?