Problems and Solutions

[kehlis]

Quote: Originally Posted by Smoke6

Its hard to really say what you mean and how you feel here without getting your post deleted and hit with a ban warning or banned.

It's really not.

Post your thoughts, concerns and problems with the game the way you just did and you will never have a problem.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

Taz, I hardly disagreed with you now or in the past. My big issue has been the lack of penalties being called, but that could be someone's minor issue. We all want different things even though we fall under the sim category. I think EA hires beta testers, but I could be wrong in the suits involvement. I just know marketing has a much bigger impact on Madden then the suits. That's why I feel they direct and conduct and allow the people under them to do their thing, but I could be wrong. I would think you would agree with me, though, that some companies are set up differently.

You are correct sir. I agree 100% about the marketing people. That's a whole different animal.

[wheelman990]

Really great post taz. I think you pretty much nailed the issues most gamers have right on the money. IMO your post should be stickied, because it was said very tastefully, and explains to the devs just what were asking of them.

[SageInfinite]

Quote: Originally Posted by wheelman990

Really great post taz. I think you pretty much nailed the issues most gamers have right on the money. IMO your post should be stickied, because it was said very tastefully, and explains to the devs just what were asking of them.

I agree. Really good post.

[TNT713]

Geez,

Alot has been posted on this thread since I last posted... Unfortunately, it's taking the turn I hoped I wouldn't see.

First, someone mentioned that it's not our responsibility to make the AI play like it's supposed to. I don't understand what is meant by this BECAUSE when I call a play, I'm giving the AI it's instructions. If I call man defense, I expect my players to play man defense. I HOPE THEY PLAY IT WELL, but if they get beat playing the coverage I called, I'm cool with it. But if I call a zone defense and the AI takes it upon itself to run man instead, I have a problem.

So by our very role as playcaller, we are giving the AI it's instruction. Once at the line of scrimmage we can FURTHER instruct the AI on what we want it to do. Obviously, failure in either of these roles is not EA's fault nor should it be considered so.

I find it strange that people say that the tools set isn't improving, then list when each tool became available on PS3/360 as if having it now erases every game that didn't have it before... It's true. Some things from PS2 have not been migrated to the PS3/s60 versions. When they do, those 'tools' will be an improvement over the tools that are presently available.

I remember when slide protect wasn't available on Madden... I remember when hot routes weren't available on Madden. I remember when players didn't have eyes. The game was still fun.

I may come off as elitist. Fortunately for me, I didn't stop the attitude of the messenger from interfering with the point of the message. The point is there are solutions to the problems players face everyday...

Not sure where the 'suits' talk came from or where it was going - nor do I think it's relevant on the field of play when trying to combat an opponent. Seriously, how is anything Peter Moore says (for example) going to help you defend a Strong I Close Strong Toss? It's not. Therefore, no solutions will come out of the mental energy needed to think about it.... Let's not.

For Smoke6:

I agree that it is difficult to say what I want to say without being banned. I'm much harsher in real life. My language is a lot more colorful than in forums... In real life I'd have just said something like, "Yeah, OK Laura" (except meaner), but that's a No-No here at OS. That said, I'm pleased to say that I've been firm in several threads that led to a great discussion. This may be another.

As far as teams go, I play with the Panthers 99.99999999% of the time. In fact, I've only used a different team 6 times in the past 5 years (league games with Cardinals). I know the Panthers inside and out.

Someone else mentioned that speed is the only rating that matters, yet that's not true. If it were I'd never have given up 800 passing yards in my games with the Cardinals as both corners have 90+ speed. Oddly, I have better success defending those teams with slower DB's.

Back to Smoke, the reason Slide Protect isn't working against some of the blitzes you're seeing is because these blitzes are designed to work against the most often used responses to blitzes (Slide protect down + Shotgun). I didn't use Slide Protect for years and hate using shotgun... I'm under center about 85% and I block blitzes pretty well.

The truth is, many players get blitzed with defenses designed to beat their base protection AND the most common slide protections reactions. But they only victimize players who stop at Slide Protect and shotgun. Players that move protection to the problem gap via motion, formation, or both are not affected.

That may seem elitist, but blocking blitzes is one of MY biggest strengths. I used to have problems blocking, but it wasn't because EA hadn't given me ample tools. It was because I didn't know how to use them effectively. Now I know a little more about how to get the most out of the tools. I'm looking to pass that knowledge to anyone that wants it.

Some, not all, would rather smack down the extended hand than shake it. The notion that we CAN use the principles of personnel, position, and tempo to play a Madden game somehow upsets people.

When I say, you can block blitzes!!! They say "no you can't."
When I say, you can defend angle routes!!! They say "no you can't."
When I say, you can defend the deep ball!!! They say "no you can't."
When I say, you can _________________!!! They say "no you can't."

The only response afterward is that this glitch or exploit is countered by another glitch or exploit. It's almost unfathomable for some people to think that there is an actual strategic reason to do anything unless it's a glitch or an exploit.

It's not just some at OS, it's prevalent EVERYWHERE and has been for several years. Believe it or not, I've had the blocking nano argument longe before Slide Protect was available. Indeed, I didn't use Slide protect for 3 years after it became available because I didn't need to change the protections I already had til Madden '08.

The fact that I didn't need Slide Protect for 3-years illustrates the depth and effectiveness of the other tools. For three years, my protection plan stood up to the world.

What I've learned is that Slide Protect is NOT the only way to block. I'm guessing that players who only use Slide protect will have trouble picking up blitzes. While players that use it as part of a protection package will not. In any case... I don't care what happens on the field, there's a solution (dare I say several) for it.

Later

[Senator Palmer]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

Geez, Alot has been posted on this thread since I last posted... Unfortunately, it's taking the turn I hoped I wouldn't see. First, someone mentioned that it's not our responsibility to make the AI play like it's supposed to. I don't understand what is meant by this BECAUSE when I call a play, I'm giving the AI it's instructions. If I call man defense, I expect my players to play man defense. I HOPE THEY PLAY IT WELL, but if they get beat playing the coverage I called, I'm cool with it. But if I call a zone defense and the AI takes it upon itself to run man instead, I have a problem. So by our very role as playcaller, we are giving the AI it's instruction. Once at the line of scrimmage we can FURTHER instruct the AI on what we want it to do. Obviously, failure in either of these roles is not EA's fault nor should it be considered so. I find it strange that people say that the tools set isn't improving, then list when each tool became available on PS3/360 as if having it now erases every game that didn't have it before... It's true. Some things from PS2 have not been migrated to the PS3/s60 versions. When they do, those 'tools' will be an improvement over the tools that are presently available.

Quote:

Yet, they have been steadily improving the tools for over a decade.

Hey TNT,

You still didn't elaborate on your point that the tools in Madden have been steadily improved upon. Definitely true of last gen. The game was on a serious uptick in that department. But how is the tool set now improving if they are just adding a feature here or a feature there that was readily available last gen? That sounds like they are playing catch up not innovating.

When was the last time or the first time on this generation of consoles that something has been added to the tactical tool kit that was "new" or improved?

[LiquorLogic]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

Geez, Alot has been posted on this thread since I last posted... Unfortunately, it's taking the turn I hoped I wouldn't see. First, someone mentioned that it's not our responsibility to make the AI play like it's supposed to. I don't understand what is meant by this BECAUSE when I call a play, I'm giving the AI it's instructions. If I call man defense, I expect my players to play man defense. I HOPE THEY PLAY IT WELL, but if they get beat playing the coverage I called, I'm cool with it. But if I call a zone defense and the AI takes it upon itself to run man instead, I have a problem. So by our very role as playcaller, we are giving the AI it's instruction. Once at the line of scrimmage we can FURTHER instruct the AI on what we want it to do. Obviously, failure in either of these roles is not EA's fault nor should it be considered so.

That's just it. Many times the AI doesn't play the coverage, that is called, the way they're suppose to. That's on the developers, not the user. Also, the man coverage is flawed. Tiburon's way of simulating an elite cover corner is to basically have him run the receiver's route for the receiver like he's psychic.

[TNT713]

Quote: Originally Posted by Senator Palmer

Hey TNT, You still didn't elaborate on your point that the tools in Madden have been steadily improved upon. Definitely true of last gen. The game was on a serious uptick in that department. But how is the tool set now improving if they are just adding a feature here or a feature there that was readily available last gen? That sounds like they are playing catch up not innovating. When was the last time or the first time on this generation of consoles that something has been added to the tactical tool kit that was "new" or improved?

I'm not comparing PS2 to PS3/360. I'm comparing PS2 Madden from year to year separately from PS3/360. Madden '06 on 360 was horrible... Even I wouldn't buy it, but that's the starting point at which I judge NG Madden. From that stance, the arsenal of tools in Madden has improved over time on every generation of consoles, PS3/360 included.

However, on the solution front, wasting energy thinking about all the adjustments that still aren't available in NG Madden isn't going to help me during a game. It will not provide a solution. Therefore, it's not important.

What is important is that my opponent has the same abundance of possibilities (or lack thereof depending on your perspective). The solution oriented part of me concentrates on using the tools that are available well and let someone else worry about the tools that they wish they had.

For instance, I'm not talking about Madden 12 yet and won't until I'm in position to play it. There's still a lot of Madden 11 to be played.

Later