Has the Madden team lost its innovative spirit?

[Thinking Out Loud]

Quote: Originally Posted by adembroski

I don't think I made myself as clear as I should have. I am not saying innovation is bad, I'm saying trying to innovate is bad. If innovation comes naturally in the design/problem solving process, then it's good, but there has to be a good foundation around it.

See, it's statements like this from an OSer on the inside and the things being said by creditable CD guys, that fuel my optimism for Madden 12.

I empathise with anyone that feels the Madden hype can not be trusted and does not give two funks about how EA claims "this is the year of the fan". However, I have NEVER heard the kind of things being said by CD guys and Adembroski about past next-gen Maddens, that I have for Madden 12. According to the CD guys, not EA hype, it seems the gameplay videos shown thus far, have been from early builds they played and not the latest ones, they most recently played. They actually claim the difference in Madden 11 and Madden 12 is "night and day".

Either EA has used the money saved from this years discount on exclusive NFL license to buy a whole lotta people off or Madden 12 may actually be a much improved version. I would advise EVERYONE, skeptics, fan boys, haters, PHD's or whatever, to wait at least until demos are available, before being convinced either way.

[kjcheezhead]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

I guess I'm a bit surprized. You've been clamoring for DB shade for several years and they brought it back, now you want to view from afar? You would have had me the last few years, but I just don't see where you cannot test the demo or not rent this year with DPP and hot and cold streaks. I would think that would be a personal thing to test on your own. FH, I understand your indifference, I can respect it, but I don't feel EA deceived anyone with franchise mode last year. They let everyone know 2 months in advance there would be no franchise mode. Better to find out then vs midnight release. To each their own, though.

I was really excited about the db adjustments. Single best thing from the ps2 days ever. Problem is, I have found Madden 10/11 so lackluster that I no longer care. Like 31 said, expecting night/day difference between 10/11 and 12 is probably asking for too much and after watching the NCAA 12 streaming vids, I would tend to agree.

The final nail is the NFL lockout. After being a loyal fan for years, purchasing all the exclusives like NFL ticket, madden, and a wardrobe full of NFL apparel, I'm not really chomping at the bit to buy more exclusives like a Madden game I probably won't enjoy more than a couple weeks.

[TNT713]

Quote: Originally Posted by Mjphillips

Well add to this by sharing what you saw as innovative from the same Maddens that he listed. I'm curious.

I've been playing so long, the things I consider innovative were already in the game before many people started playing. Older Madden games I'm not so sure about. I was just a casual player back then. I'm most familiar with changes made after Madden '03. Feel free to correct any years I get wrong.

The long field view was pretty innovative. Before most games had an overhead or sideline view. Disappearance of the passing windows was huge.

Madden '99 - Franchise mode was pretty innovative. I haven't played since Madden 2000, but I'll give it it's due.

Hot routes were pretty innovative. Madden 98? Maybe 99 for offense. Madden 2005 for defense. I think the OP mentioned it.

Online play was innovative. It changed the game for me. I became a year-long Madden gamer instantly.

Hit Stick. Madden '05. Slide protection was big too, but I don't remember when it was added. Madden '05 I think. I didn't use it til Madden '08.

QB Vision was innovative, but poorly implemented.

I won't list the 'innovations' on the OP's list that I didn't find particularly innovative because it would be counter productive.

Later

Later

[kjcheezhead]

Quote: Originally Posted by UMhester04

Given the two examples you gave, I have to disagree with your statement. All the passing system needs is route pased passing and it will play much better than it does now. I do not think it needs any more attempts at vision cones or even new controllers. I think that Madden is reinventing itself this year and going more towards the ps2 days of how the game is going to play.

Neither you or I know that for sure. What if a new system allowed for 4x as many trajectories? Now suddenly there is 4 times as many places a pass can end up. Much more unpredictablilty, not to mention super lbs become a thing of the past because gamers can easily put enough on the pass to get it over the lbs without it hanging long enough for a safety to make a play.

That innovation would suddenly become something Madden fans would wonder how they ever played the game without...even the ones who say current Madden has a functional route based system and believe the passing game is perfect as is.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by kjcheezhead

I probably won't enjoy more than a couple weeks.

I may keep on sounding like a broken record, but for me, it would be hard to tell that without playing the demo or at least renting.

You won't know how DPP , hot/cold streaks and players roles play out unles you have the controller in your hands.

In the end, your choice.

[adembroski]

Quote: Originally Posted by Thinking Out Loud

See, it's statements like this from an OSer on the inside and the things being said by creditable CD guys, that fuel my optimism for Madden 12. I empathise with anyone that feels the Madden hype can not be trusted and does not give two funks about how EA claims "this is the year of the fan". However, I have NEVER heard the kind of things being said by CD guys and Adembroski about past next-gen Maddens, that I have for Madden 12. According to the CD guys, not EA hype, it seems the gameplay videos shown thus far, have been from early builds they played and not the latest ones, they most recently played. They actually claim the difference in Madden 11 and Madden 12 is "night and day". Either EA has used the money saved from this years discount on exclusive NFL license to buy a whole lotta people off or Madden 12 may actually be a much improved version. I would advise EVERYONE, skeptics, fan boys, haters, PHD's or whatever, to wait at least until demos are available, before being convinced either way.

I had forgotten about that post you quoted in your sig... wow, I guess that's a challenge to myself now, huh?

Can I just throw one more thing out there. I've been waxing philosophical in this thread quite a bit, but I want to let people know I understand where they're coming from. I know a game can get stale after years of the same mechanics. My concern is, as someone above said, getting distracted with Eureka moments and loving all these cool new ideas, but you never, say, fix the pass block logic, or implement proper CPU play calling.

Like I said, innovation is great if it comes out of the process of improving the game... it just doesn't make a very good goal unto itself.

Also, there are certain things i don't consider "innovative" when perhaps others might. So maybe I'm excluding some things you'd include and thus I've got a narrower idea of what innovation is. To me, stick control for pitching and swinging in a baseball game is a natural progression that comes with the analog controller. That's not innovation, that's following A to B.

I think MLB 2ks pitching system is rather innovative... but on the whole I think it's an inferior game to The Show. So where's the benefit from the innovation? Their entire marketing strategy revolves around a cash prize... what does that say about the stand-alone quality of the game?

[bkrich83]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

I may keep on sounding like a broken record, but for me, it would be hard to tell that without playing the demo or at least renting. You won't know how DPP , hot/cold streaks and players roles play out unles you have the controller in your hands. In the end, your choice.

Let it go.. He won't like it no matter what product EA releases.

[GGEden]

To better get a grasp of innovation+football video game = backbreaker's euphoria physics engine.

Put it this way....people have been asking for that for a long time. When we moved from ps2/xb to ps3/x360, we moved into a technical generation that could handle that step. In the 4-5 years since, only Natural Motion has looked to raise the bar. Good on them. But it's disappointing that EA hasn't with their greater resources, manpower, dollars. Like I said earlier in the thread, EA "should" re-do NFL Street or Arena with their own full physics engine. As a process of trial and error, tweaks, in preparation for a move to that engine for Madden 13/14/whenever.

EA have said often they don't believe in a full physics engine, they believe in animation-based engine. I don't think that's bad because the Frostbite2 engine for BF3 has shown how amazing it can look and work, replicating physics, and so smooth with transitions of animations to other animations, or animations interacting with objects.

The point tho, NM did something EA should have with a smaller title like Street/Arena. Asking EA 5 years ago about having a fully dynamic physics engine football game they said "no, too hard, not in our plans, etc". But another smaller company said, "let's try" and they succeeded.

That's an example of where EA has been slow or scared to innovate/try, tho the ones in the best position to be leaders in innovation/trying. As many have said before....Madden is the flagship title, and that in the whole world of famous gaming titles should've tried harder to set a benchmark or raise the bar for gaming per se. But other games/companies in that time have come along to take that mantle. Madden the IP has instead gotten a bit of a bad name in that time.