Ravens at Eagles on All-Madden in Madden NFL 12

[GGEden]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

I'm assuming you would classify the 500 new camera angles as superficial as well because that is part of presentation. Doesn't these broadcast angles give Madden something new and fresh to marvel at and more of a sim feel or am I missing something here? Many people get that physics (the tackling for 12 has improved that area somewhat), pass trajectory, dynamic OL/DL, WR/CB interaction, etc....., but you just can't deny where Madden is headed, especially with player traits, DPP, Custom Playbooks, etc...... We can't change the way Madden was, but we can certainly make suggestions for the future. It seems like there listening. Maybe some of you feel too little too late, but we can't change history. Being upset at history isn't going to change things going forward.

Sorry for the length of this post, firstly.

Cut-away shots again represent things people skip thru. Cheerleaders, blimps, entrances, etc, it's all polish and looks nice, but ultimately we skip thru it all, and our brains are ingrained 95% of our time in actual game-play.

Analogy...

Once all shooters were third person, then someone created first person view. Since then, a billion FPSers emerged and the tech of that first person view has advanced each time....eg, BF3 how you see your feet, hands, when jumping over stuff realistically, the way the camera tilts, destructible environments, etc.

Third person shooters still exist and are great. But, take that analogy to football. I'm not talking actual first person view, but how the pixel-bodies actually move about and interact with each other on the field. Smoother animation transition, blending into each other, not like two bowling balls hitting each other. Momentum/weight, random real-time action, players getting hit, stumbling forward, re-balancing, etc....especially when all that is put into a more personable view of the field, like giving the QB a new perspective that more resembles real-life, having to shift your vision left-right.

The BB QB and RB perspectives still have room for improvement, but that coupled with the actual animations moving about more like human bodies, foot-planting, momentum, smoothness, such that when people pull the thumb-stick all over the place it doesn't see unrealistic speeds, lateral movements, skating, etc. Then it just enhances the experience of "being on the field". Our brains so absorbed hour after hour in the animations on the field and how they interact. When they're not represented well it's jarring, frustrating, gets tired. No matter if you have 10 game-modes or just one. I find it very hard now going back to APF or Madden after tasting BB's potential ceiling.

This is where video football games have suffered. Shooters have pushed the envelope. But football has been sorely neglected. EA has been the gate-keeper, the owner of football titles. Especially after the 80's/90's when it became just 2K and EA, then last 6 years just EA. What NM did with Euphoria was a massive break-thru for football tech advancement. A much needed reminder of a standard that needs to be jumped on by any company wishing to make a football game. As EA are the only ones now, especially with the clout that the license gives, they never even tried or said it couldn't work. But a small group like NM showed it's possible. Football deserves to be revolutionized. Somehow us consumers encouraging EA to take bolder steps, otherwise it means waiting for the license to end to throw it open for competition to drive a resurgence of creativity and tech advancement.

That all is just one, tho fundamental, phase. From there building a pick-up-and-play mode and a simulation mode (full play-creation, custom playbooks, GMing options, etc). Both modes offer online, offline franchise, etc. Rather than trying to build a game that is a bit for casual gamers and a bit for sim gamers, trying to merge them.

Like you said, we can't rewrite history, but it's about encouraging EA to take a leap, initiate, be the gate-keeper of advancing football video game tech. Rather than us having to hold out in vain for small NM-type companies who who don't have the Smithsonian-type legacy and appeal that is "Madden", who try to drive the revolutionary process but can't compete with EA, especially without a license, and inevitably fade away.

A monopoly isn't necessarily a good thing for EA either. With only 6M sales globally of a 'possible' realm of 26M sales, monopolizing a license itself, thus causing no one else to make football games, isn't going to be THE thing that helps EA raise the sales bar to 10M, 15M. Nor is it thru merging arcade and sim, casual and hardcore, into one. But building a true-life motion game and offering two different modes.

[bluntworthy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jarodd21

There's nothing realistic about all-pro.. There's nothing realistic about scrub WRs dominating against elite DBs just because they have speed due to the terrible AI on all-pro. If anything the threshold should be on 0.. You also have to remember they have Nagata with a very high acceleration which might of helped in tracking down Vick like that.

Quote: Originally Posted by SteboSSK

Um no, no 350 lb DT is catching Vick running at any angle unless he is cornered...he was simply running straight back and was caught...

Exactly. I hate to see people cheese just as much as the next man but Vick should not have been caught on that play. Ratings should matter. It gives the game a more realistic feel when you actually have to account for Vick's ability to use his feet to make plays. Loved that he fumbled though...

On second thought those guys were just terrible at Madden. Point: @6:19 (first video) Defense is running a zone defense (cover 2 i believe)... guy controlling the eagles pulls his safety with the deep zone responsibility in the box... and gets TOASTED (as he should).

I do love how this play plays out.

So many mixed emotions with these videos lately for me b/c then you see the guy run in a "S" pattern (at full sprint) for the TD. The same "S" pattern that you see every year during Kick/Punt returns.

[roadman]

Wow, I didn't know there are $26 million football fans across the world, I thought it was just across America and Canada.

I get the phenom of BB in the physics area. That's about the only thing I like about it.

I wouldn't hold EA to getting Euporia only because I knew how EA felt about it at the time and Cam Weber, the new Football Director, comes from a FIFA background. Based on the fact that FIFA is under EA, I'm assuming Madden will become similar with FIFA's physics, which I hear, isn't a bad thing.

I know what to expect from 12 and that is better tackling with no more suctions. You need to start somewhere and I consider that a positive step in the right direction. That had to be the number 1 complaint on YT over the past several years and EA addressed that part of it.

Also, I just recalled Phil mentioning in a interview somewhere this year that he knows the fans want physics in the game and that is in the future plans. You can leave it to your own interpretation what that means, near future and beyond is what it means to me.

[Senator Palmer]

Quote: Originally Posted by GGEden

These three comments are probably where I'm at right now. As always, wait for demo. The NCAA12 demo didn't inspire, I'm guessing M12 wont for me. Problem is exactly as guaps said. Between last-gen and current-gen madden, it's only the aesthetics that have leaped, but really the last-gen was "good enough" graphics-wise. Game-play > graphics. It's really the tired old engine, the same predictability, the unrealistic movements, distant camera, zig-zagging, lack of momentum, bowling-ball collisions, same old nano vs shotgun scramble and a million bits of pre-snap hot-routing/assignment adjustments, making it all not represent football very well, could be done better. The last I felt 'alive' in terms of video game football was when Backbreaker released, despite all its flaws and lack of license etc. It was a sense of something new, breathtaking. This is what EA needs to bite the bullet about. Re-invigorate the tiredness of the Madden game. Real-time physics, new camera/control perspectives, my suggested pre-snap controls idea, dynamic/adaptive OL, and implementing a true full play-creation module and custom playbooks for online/offline would be the ticket for me.

With all that, is it safe to assume no M12 for you?

[GGEden]

It's borderline at this point, Senator Palmer. Not like anyone cares whether I do or don't.

M12 is much improved over M11, there'll be some lures to get it. Even tho collision-tackling is there now, there's still that thing that 'ruined' me, and with or without collision-tackling, M12 still looks in all the videos to be M11 in terms of that tiredness of the engine, unrealistic movements, skating, nanos, shotgun scrambles, mass-hot-routing/adjustments pre-snap, online arcade, perhaps online quit-glitches.

BBV wont cut it. BB1 needs patching but probably wont. BB2 is no guarantee. APF is cool but tired too. So that leaves only Madden left. And Arena Football when that releases, to choose from. Gotta have a football title.

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

I'm assuming you would classify the 500 new camera angles as superficial as well because that is part of presentation. Doesn't these broadcast angles give Madden something new and fresh to marvel at and more of a sim feel or am I missing something here? Many people get that physics (the tackling for 12 has improved that area somewhat), pass trajectory, dynamic OL/DL, WR/CB interaction, etc....., but you just can't deny where Madden is headed, especially with player traits, DPP, Custom Playbooks, etc......

Not that you were responding to me, but...

Personally, though I'm sure I'd appreciate DPP, custom playbooks, ect., it doesn't mean much if the gameplay is not up to par.

The 500 new camera angles are still angles of poor animations, poor AI, ect.

[TheTruth437]

I'm still undecided on whether I'm going to buy Madden 12. After watching this video, and many other videos, I'm still 50/50 on whether I buy Madden this year.

[jpdavis82]

Quote: Originally Posted by GGEden

These three comments are probably where I'm at right now. As always, wait for demo. The NCAA12 demo didn't inspire, I'm guessing M12 wont for me. Problem is exactly as guaps said. Between last-gen and current-gen madden, it's only the aesthetics that have leaped, but really the last-gen was "good enough" graphics-wise. Game-play > graphics. It's really the tired old engine, the same predictability, the unrealistic movements, distant camera, zig-zagging, lack of momentum, bowling-ball collisions, same old nano vs shotgun scramble and a million bits of pre-snap hot-routing/assignment adjustments, making it all not represent football very well, could be done better. The last I felt 'alive' in terms of video game football was when Backbreaker released, despite all its flaws and lack of license etc. It was a sense of something new, breathtaking. This is what EA needs to bite the bullet about. Re-invigorate the tiredness of the Madden game. Real-time physics, new camera/control perspectives, my suggested pre-snap controls idea, dynamic/adaptive OL, and implementing a true full play-creation module and custom playbooks for online/offline would be the ticket for me.

A true full play creation module and Custom playbooks? This IS in Madden 12