Dallas Clark is faster than Reggie Wayne?

[bigbob]

Quote: Originally Posted by BezO

Now compare that to this Hillis run in Madden... something I just grabbed from another post where I was trying to make the same point. We all see this happen on outside runs quite frequently. It's just not football. Only the fastest RBs take the corner like this, and it's rare for them as you can see in that Chris Johnson highlight vid.

I just want to point out in this video.. Hillis would not have been tackled on that play, even if it's unrealistic that he caught the corner that fast. The angle he had compared to the tackler, he would've brushed him off or thrown him to the ground with a stiff arm. NO, it's EA.. Peyton Hillis gets stopped dead in his tracks and taken backwards.

[dramachild11]

someone on the first page of this thread said the ratings are skewed cause the devs are trying to balance out the overall ratings and im forced to agree with this... there are far far too many WR's , RB's and CB's with mid 80's speed ( these are the fastest players in the league at ANY position)... i do believe that some players play above their 40 times (jerry rice and emmitt smith are two prime examples) but we all have to realize that the NFL is full of burners at the skill positions and theres no way that someone like clay matthews is as fast as say hakeem nicks

[TWOSILK]

Quote: Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM

Where did you come up with this? They have never said this lol.

I said that would be their arguement, not that it was actually said

[BezO]

Quote: Originally Posted by bigbob

I just want to point out in this video.. Hillis would not have been tackled on that play, even if it's unrealistic that he caught the corner that fast. The angle he had compared to the tackler, he would've brushed him off or thrown him to the ground with a stiff arm. NO, it's EA.. Peyton Hillis gets stopped dead in his tracks and taken backwards.

That's the debat in the thread I linked.

My point in that thread is EA has to allow for smaller DBs taking down bigger backs way more often than they should because of the lack of engaged player mobility I'm referring to.

And to clarify, I'm not referring to Hillis' speed or how fast he took the corner (And by corner, I'm referring to the defense's containment, not the CB). My concern is that because the engaged defenders are not allowed to flow towards the play, the "corner" is much further inside than it should be, giving Hillis waaay more room than he should have. Without the engaged player mobility, If EA made smaller DB / bigger RB collisions more realistic, there'd be too many big runs.

Compare the 2 vids and notice how Chris Johnson, one of the fastest backs in the NFL has traffic to content with on the outside. Even he doesn't break contain most of the time. In that vid, even though he's breaking big runs, he's cutting INSIDE of OLBs, DEs and I think on one occasion an interior d-lineman. There's not nearly as much room on the outside in the Johnson vid. This element is not in Madden, thus having to allow for better than should be tackling by DBs.

These issues are not face value. Folks are complaining about the speed of certain players in this thread. Folks are complaining about big RBs being tackled too easilty by smaller DBs in that other thread. My point is that it's not a case of EA not knowing how fast players are or their tackling ability. It's them "fixing" problems caused by missing football essentials like engaged player mobility, proper footwork and run fits.

They can't fix the speed ratings and DB tackling ability until the address the real issues.

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by splff3000

I like those ratings!!!

Thanks. 17000+ players rated that way on my site. Verifiable and scouting data only.

Here is the topic here at OS:
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...ange-game.html

[DCEBB2001]

Per the OP's first post, I also take issue with Jermichael Finley being faster than Donald Driver. Even though DD is old, he is still not that slow. They have DD at 82 SPD and Finley at 86. That's insane.

[wheelman990]

Quote: Originally Posted by BezO

What's Rice's acc in Madden? Seems like they could put it at 100, keep is speed realistic and everything would be cool. And like you said, the opposite for Bolt, if he played. I think his acc would have to be lower than 92 though. That's still pretty high. Yeah, awareness and user control is a problem. I still don't think Madden does a good enough job with other ratings though... some seem not to work well, some I disagree with. Route running & man coverage need major work. A speedy WR with no route running skills can be kept in check without artificially reducing his speed. I think awareness is really only a problem for RBs. Limited animations also play a part. No reaching/grabbing tackles on smaller players, for example. DB/WR interaction. But you can't just shaft a player on his speed rating just because he lacks awareness. What happens when these guys get in the open field? But I think there are other issues effecting this: 1. Engaged Play Mobility (I'm crusading until this gets in) - Because engaged players are stuck in one spot until someone wins, the spacing & timing of the game is waaaay off. Ball carriers have too much space to work with, so speed is that much more of a factor. And instead of addressing the issue, engaged player mobility, they add another band-aid... speed differential. 2. Realistic Footwork - Another major element ruining the spacing & timing. Players cover ground waaaay too quickly. Again, until this is addressed, speed will be a bigger factor than it should. Check out this vid of Chris Johnson. Probably the fastest back in the league. But notice how even he has to deal with traffice on outside runs because engaged players can still flow towards the play. Good examples at :18, 1:26 & 3:02. The 1st 2, he doesn't get the corner... ends up cutting inside of OLBs & DEs. That last one is a cutback where he actually gets outside of the BACKSIDE OLB while still between the hashes. You won't see this in madden until they implement engaged player mobility. This vid also shows why Madden needs to address run fits, which would also help to keep those unaware, speed RBs in check. Now compare that to this Hillis run in Madden... something I just grabbed from another post where I was trying to make the same point. We all see this happen on outside runs quite frequently. It's just not football. Only the fastest RBs take the corner like this, and it's rare for them as you can see in that Chris Johnson highlight vid.

These videos also show how Madden should be played on slow or very slow to match realistic speeds(although fast players probably should top out at what the "normal setting" offers(however read on). It also shows how in Madden players get to there top speed way way too fast. Speed rating should be a open field boast rating for the most part. Thats the real problem with the speed rating IMO. Also if route running and awareness ratings were maximized to work, speed rating wouldnt mean as much if say a receiver couldnt get open to get him the ball all but 1-2 times a game unless he also had the route running/awareness type ratings too. Take Deverly henderson on the Saints. He only gets the ball 2-3 times a game, but his speed has let him get a ton of yards off those catches this year. With my suggested adjustments open field speed matters to someone like henderson, but he's not also gonna get 5-8 catches a game either due to his awareness, or route running, catching, etc.

[phant030]

I agree. Never played football, only watch it. I think there is too much top speed football being played. Agility needs to be respected more in the game. Poor decisions need to have consequences.

Players need to be able to run themselves out of a play....as it is now, you can blitz a CB...the run play can go the opposite direction, HB can gain 10yds and get tackled from behind by the CB. What? Plz stop giving the user this type of control and power.

Too much top speed football being played, which is why the game cheats recovery time, strafe speed, and pursuit angles are shot..just to give the user a "chance" to make a play.....if the offensive player had to respect agility and not be at top speed doing everything, strafe speed could be lowered and the users could play for fundamentally sound b/c there would be true risk in running yourself out of the play. I think it would play our more realistically as there is a "decision phase"...ppl just dont run full speed all the time. And definitely cant break 3 tackles then be at top speed after 2 yds....

Which leads to the next thing, in play stamina and injury...all that damn fast running, triple spins, zig zagging, rocket catching....should takes its toll on an offensive player and leave him fatigued during the play [lowering his top speed and acceleration], be vulnerable to tacklers coming into the play and tougher ball security. With the appropriate risk and consequences users will be forced to play a bit more realistic. I dont blame them for doing things the game allows.

Another thing, if all the catches were not in stride the view of speed would be different, too. I see deep balls caught w/ players sliding to catch, falling will catching...catching the stumbling down......even short passes..player catch it and get down....catch low passes and getting hands underneath the ball....generally catching the ball in the area...its not "accurate" but its accurate enough. Players catch dang near everything instride in madden and can turn on a dime upfield. I know you can precision pass low to get some more animations...but ALL animations shouldnt be up to the human to trigger...just like i should have to tell my corner to play the inside if the player has called the same play the whole game. Just my thoughts.