There's something(s) OUT of WHACK in the DEEP and MIDDLE PASSING GAME

[SportsGuy53]

I think Madden 12 is the best one yet, but I still see things that bug me. Like the CBs,, they still at times shadow the WRs step for step sometimes even turning left BEFORE the WR turns left..
Ive been following the thread "edits for the game" in the roster section and have tried the "fixes" and they help alot.. Im hoping they will figure a way to fix the passing issues..

[RGiles36]

I really can't put a finger on what's wrong/missing from the passing game, but I think there's been some great posts in this thread.

I think for me, the biggest thing as others have alluded to is that you can't trust your eyes. You see a defender heading one direction and your receiver another; you make the pass and the defender is able to miraculously make a play on the ball.

It leads to a ridicuolous amont of INTs for the user, even with the slider bumped down to about 35 or so. I'd love to go a franchise season with 16 or less picks, but I'm often up over 20.

I don't often like to compare the NFL games of old. But INTs in other games didn't feel as cheap. Maybe that's a locomotion thing, or maybe other games having animations in place to give you the illusion that the defender just made a play on the ball. While there are several plays that defenders make a play on the ball in Madden, there are certainly plays where you feel the defender shouldn't have had a chance.

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While on the subject of the passing game, what happened to the diving catches? I rarely ever see these. I saw one w/ Dez Bryant a few days ago and I nearly dropped the controller. These were blogged about, so why do they occur soooo infrequently?

[baller7345]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

While on the subject of the passing game, what happened to the diving catches? I rarely ever see these. I saw one w/ Dez Bryant a few days ago and I nearly dropped the controller. These were blogged about, so why do they occur soooo infrequently?

Not sure why they rarely ever show up with the A.I. but if you hold X when attempting to catch a ball that is slightly out of reach then your player will make an attempt at a diving catch.

[lofeazy]

Good thread.

[TNT713]

Quote: Originally Posted by Broncos86

TNT, I respect you so much that I can't find myself to go point-for-point with you (I'd also rather play my NCAA 12 dynasty Edit: LOL. SDSU has a FB doing kickoffs). You make some great points I agree with, some I don't. But, all good stuff.

The coolest thing about football is the its always debatable because of how we perceive the details. Not just video games - football period. I think that's the beauty of the game.

Part of this debate, IMO, is centered around our individual philosophies about what we enjoy about football and what we expect from a video game simulation of football. Some of us play Madden like it's a game, others play it like it's a sport. The difference being the level of commitment given toward the various aspects of playing...

And I agree - Good stuff and good discussion.

Later

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

5) When a corner runs the route before the receiver, it's called - GOOD COVERAGE. On Sunday's we've seen several players run the route before the receiver. Ladarius Webb picked off a pass in the Divisional round against Houston of the playoffs last week where he ran the route better than the receiver. In the NFL, the QB's typically look elsewhere when the coverage is that good. In Madden, people throw it anyway then complain that they threw into coverage the only way that makes them feel good about a stupid mistake - blame the game and call it "psychic DB."

I found videos (NFL.com) of both of those INTs and don't think they fall under the DB running the route before the receiver.

On the INT where he had underneath coverage (with Reed over the top) it was just a bad decision and Webb was running man coverage underneath. Walter did not beat Webb, but Webb wasn't running the post before Walter did.

On the INT where he picked off the pass intended for Andre Johnson, he anticipated and was right. However, he was not running Andre Johnson's route. He was watching him in man coverage and when he got whatever key he was looking for, he went straight for the spot the ball would likely be. He didn't run the out route before Andre did, he read "Out" and then got to where Andre needed to go.

Running the route before the WR seems like a "Madden shortcut" for the kind of anticipation Webb showed (Webb would have a step on the WR and run/complete the route before Andre Johnson). I agree, you need to go elsewhere with that pass, but it's not representing real coverage, imo. To represent what Webb did, he would need to go to the spot the ball would be delivered, that's what Webb did, not have a step on a WR as he runs his route.

[TNT713]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

On the INT where he picked off the pass intended for Andre Johnson, he anticipated and was right. However, he was not running Andre Johnson's route. He was watching him in man coverage and when he got whatever key he was looking for, he went straight for the spot the ball would likely be. He didn't run the out route before Andre did, he read "Out" and then got to where Andre needed to go. Running the route before the WR seems like a "Madden shortcut" for the kind of anticipation Webb showed (Webb would have a step on the WR and run/complete the route before Andre Johnson). I agree, you need to go elsewhere with that pass, but it's not representing real coverage, imo.

This is the one I was referring to...

In Madden, guys turn their backs, run stride for stride, and cut before the receiver sometimes. In real life, defenders play more coverages than Madden allows us to play - but good coverage is good coverage and bad decisions are bad decisions, virtual or otherwise.

Whether the DB runs the route before the receiver OR he is in great position to read his key - a bad decision is a bad decision. And I'll ALWAYS contend that "Psychic DB" is merely angry slang for "A pass that shouldn't have been thrown."

Later

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

Whether the DB runs the route before the receiver OR he is in great position to read his key - a bad decision is a bad decision. And I'll ALWAYS contend that "Psychic DB" is merely angry slang for "A pass that shouldn't have been thrown."

I agree that it's a pass that shouldn't be thrown.

However, the mechanics of it in the game are wrong. Both the user decision AND the game mechanics can be wrong, imo, and in this case, I think that's what's happening.

DBs in the game should always read keys or have to be able to keep close man coverage - but never ever run the route before the WR.

Plus, it's more than just a semantic issue.

Running the route before the WR does is being psychic (how else can the DB know what the WR is going to do that far in advance?). Reading a key and going to where the ball would likely be is anticipation. That would play out completely different graphically in the game and would be something you could trust your eyes to see as long as you don't pre-determine your throw and would be representing the real game.

Also, defenders have the chance to be wrong. Take an option route - if the DB reads out and makes his move, but the receiver has the option to go in, he could see what the DB is doing, and adjust his own route to the in cut, leaving the DB behind and getting a completion. Receivers with good AWR, RTE, and AGI would get more seperation and do this while still defining the route to the QB (so the QB can also anticipate and lead the WR to safety with the ball). In addition, you could set up defenders, giving your WRs a chance to sell one move and then break of it (you know, what the commentary says, except it really happening). With running the route before the WR, the DB is NEVER wrong, which is also unrealistic. You can't set up defenders because they will run the break before the WR. PRC should be reading keys and going to the ball spot (which also could create "baiting" throws like some DBs do).

I understand your viewpoint - you feel Users should take the blame for poor decisions. I think that should be balanced by pointing out bad mechanics in Madden where applicable. Pass coverage is one of those instances, imo.