There's something(s) OUT of WHACK in the DEEP and MIDDLE PASSING GAME

[TNT713]

Quote: Originally Posted by Broncos86

I'm offline franchise only. I just don't play online. I'm okay with losing a game because a wide receiver didn't make the right route or attempt. To me, that's just reason to find a better player. But to each their own, I know some guys are all about stick all the time. Some guys just play coach mode.

That's the beauty of the game... Millions of people playing millions of different ways for millions of different reasons. That said, it's also what makes satisfying us all so difficult for the developers.

Later

[TNT713]

Quote: Originally Posted by caballero

Care to enlighten me/us on howto? I suck with the Colts...

I wish it were a simple matter of explaining in a concise step-by-step process - but it's not that simple. But there's something about making the perfect pass that just 'FEELS RIGHT' and the more experienced we become the easier it becomes...

Right now, I've played so much Madden that the 'right' pass is instinctive as having the hair on the back of you neck stand up when there's an unseen danger. Fortunately feeling so connected to the passing interface makes my hair stand on my neck figuratively as soon as I press the button to throw now when I've made a mistake (far too often I'm afraid). That's why I implore people to practice building their mechanics from the ground up instead of jumping right into the game.

Here's what I did/do, maybe it can help you feel like you're at one with the passing interface:

1) Set your clock.

Go into practice mode with the offense only and choose any pass play. Snap the ball and take a pass drop being sure to count each of your QB's steps out loud. Don't throw... Just drop. Repeat it several times taking a 3-step drop, then 5, then 7. It's important that you count your steps aloud each time to set your mental clock.

2) Make the throws.

Now that your clock is set, choose a play with one or both of the outside receivers running a hook routes. Take a 5 step drop and throw the ball immediately after planting your back foot. Be sure to release the stick to allow it to return to the neutral position and hit the receiver icon button. The QB should take a 6th step in the direction of the receiver and fire the ball directly at his chest as soon as the receiver gets turned.

Keep in mind - if the ball goes ahead of the receiver so he runs a streak the pass came out too early. If he's stationary when the ball arrives, the pass came out too late. Ultimately the goal of this drill is to hit the receiver in the chest ON TIME.

3) Locate the pass

For this drill, imagine a defender somewhere in relation to the receiver running the hook and throw away from him. Take your 5-step drop, release the stick as in the previous drill BUT this time reengage the stick in the direction opposite your imaginary defender simultaneously as you activate the receivers icon button. Use this drill to get the hang of throwing high, low, inside, and outside of the receiver.

4) Add the defense

Now, exit Offense only mode and return to Normal practice with a defense. Choose the same offensive play from step 2 and 3 on offense and choose any defense that places your intended receiver in single man-to-man coverage. Take the same 5-step drop, let the stick go neutral, then reactivate it so you throw away from the real defender simultaneously as you activate the receivers icon button. If you have timed it perfectly, the DB should turn to run upfield just as the receiver turns to catch the ball. You should catch the ball with time to make one quick move before the DB can turn back around and recover. To late and the ball is caught with nowhere to run, batted, or picked. Throw too early and the pass is sight adjusted upfield where the DB can make a play.

5) Add more routes

For each route you want to throw, start without the defense and take the drop that syncs up with where the route breaks. For routes that keep moving, you'll need to work on getting the proper pressure to lead your receiver to more/less while slightly adjusting the trajectory of the pass.

As the throws become more instinctive, start throwing to receivers that are closer toward the middle to get the subtle timing and trajectory differences between a WR running a route and a TE running the same route. Soon, you'll have a basis for making all the throws you need for every route you want to use in a game.

Most important you won't need to look at receivers anymore. Come game time, you can focus your full attention on reading the defense instead and making the right throw to beat them - often without having to think about it.

Hope this helps,

Later

[RGiles36]

Quote: Originally Posted by Broncos86

When cornerbacks are capable of just stopping (no, not canceling momentum and beating a route, I mean just STOPPING) and turning around immediately to beat a curl route, there are issues. These are not subjective opinions. These are measurable and real. Last year, there was a thread about super linebackers being back, and I posted 4 videos that demonstrated how, in the NFL linebackers reacted to throws around them and over them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0Ydz...tailpage#t=67s

Finally watched this video last night -- definitely a good look into how LBs react to passes. I don't know how that should translate to Madden though. Maybe just remove that jump swat animation altogether for LBs? Slow down the their reactions to passes? I haven't a foggy idea...

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

Finally watched this video last night -- definitely a good look into how LBs react to passes. I don't know how that should translate to Madden though. Maybe just remove that jump swat animation altogether for LBs? Slow down the their reactions to passes? I haven't a foggy idea...

Kill their JMP ratings.

That seems to be how the roster editing folks seem to be doing it.

Only defenders that should likely have good JMP ratings are probably DBs. Short of that, removing the jumping-swat animation is not a bad idea, or reserve it for the few LBs who do have a good vertical and also have above average coverage ratings.

Then again, I'm totally against any slowing down of LB reactions. They are slow enough, imo.

[TNT713]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

Kill their JMP ratings. That seems to be how the roster editing folks seem to be doing it. Only defenders that should likely have good JMP ratings are probably DBs. Short of that, removing the jumping-swat animation is not a bad idea, or reserve it for the few LBs who do have a good vertical and also have above average coverage ratings. Then again, I'm totally against any slowing down of LB reactions. They are slow enough, imo.

OR... And I think this is the best possible scenario:

EMPHASIZE USER RESPONSIBILITY and TEACH PROPER TECHNIQUE.

Instead of blaming the car for driving itself into a tree, how about looking at the driver who was activating the pedals and wheel. Makes sense in real life. Makes sense in Madden. Instead of patting folks on the head when they make a mistake and blaming the software, we should emphasize teaching users how to throw better passes.

The exercise above works to help master controlling passes using what EA has already placed in the game specifically for the purpose of giving the user control. I'm amazed that after years of having a range of touch pass trajectory possibilities that we are still blaming EA when the user activated the button that caused their passes to be knocked down.

EA didn't throw a single pass batted or picked by a Superman LB (even though there's nothing super about an LB's jump) - the USER DID. There are literally thousands of players that throw accurate passes over linebackers directly in the path of the ball, but have a mastery of controlling ball trajectory.

It seems like ball trajectory is a problem because those who have mastered the proper techniques are silently laughing at people who broadcast their weaknesses and get all the attention.

It's analogous to people wanting to blame the ball when they throw a pick... Sounds silly. That's because it is silly... Step up, master the techniques, and quit blaming EA for our errors - correct them instead. Only then can EA focus on correcting what's REALLY wrong with the series.

Later

[RGiles36]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

OR... And I think this is the best possible scenario: EMPHASIZE USER RESPONSIBILITY and TEACH PROPER TECHNIQUE.

C'mon guy! Will you give this rhetoric a rest and stop beating it down our throats?!? I agree with some of things you say, but the notion that almost every issue in-game is a user issue is inaccurate.

There's something to be said for user responsibility and technique, but not for everything. If the trajectory and linebackers aren't an issue for you, FANTASTIC my man. But for the rest of the Madden forum, it is.

You're not the only person who plays Madden year round dude.

[C the Lyte]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

OR... And I think this is the best possible scenario: EMPHASIZE USER RESPONSIBILITY and TEACH PROPER TECHNIQUE. Instead of blaming the car for driving itself into a tree, how about looking at the driver who was activating the pedals and wheel. Makes sense in real life. Makes sense in Madden. Instead of patting folks on the head when they make a mistake and blaming the software, we should emphasize teaching users how to throw better passes. The exercise above works to help master controlling passes using what EA has already placed in the game specifically for the purpose of giving the user control. I'm amazed that after years of having a range of touch pass trajectory possibilities that we are still blaming EA when the user activated the button that caused their passes to be knocked down. EA didn't throw a single pass batted or picked by a Superman LB (even though there's nothing super about an LB's jump) - the USER DID. There are literally thousands of players that throw accurate passes over linebackers directly in the path of the ball, but have a mastery of controlling ball trajectory. It seems like ball trajectory is a problem because those who have mastered the proper techniques are silently laughing at people who broadcast their weaknesses and get all the attention. It's analogous to people wanting to blame the ball when they throw a pick... Sounds silly. That's because it is silly... Step up, master the techniques, and quit blaming EA for our errors - correct them instead. Only then can EA focus on correcting what's REALLY wrong with the series. Later

This used to be my line of thinking until a few months ago.

To use your car analogy... what do you expect the user to do if the car only has 3 speeds... Stop, 5 MPH, or 100 MPH.

In my estimation, 60 - 65 % of picks thrown by the user are in fact poor judgement throws.

However, 35 - 40 % is still a large number that was really no fault of the user, just poor ball trajectory (notice, not Super LB's).

It doesn't matter how much you take off or put on the ball, the holes behind the LB's and in front of the safties are practically useless unless no LB's are in zone.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by TNT713

OR... And I think this is the best possible scenario: EMPHASIZE USER RESPONSIBILITY and TEACH PROPER TECHNIQUE. Instead of blaming the car for driving itself into a tree, how about looking at the driver who was activating the pedals and wheel. Makes sense in real life. Makes sense in Madden. Instead of patting folks on the head when they make a mistake and blaming the software, we should emphasize teaching users how to throw better passes. The exercise above works to help master controlling passes using what EA has already placed in the game specifically for the purpose of giving the user control. I'm amazed that after years of having a range of touch pass trajectory possibilities that we are still blaming EA when the user activated the button that caused their passes to be knocked down. EA didn't throw a single pass batted or picked by a Superman LB (even though there's nothing super about an LB's jump) - the USER DID. There are literally thousands of players that throw accurate passes over linebackers directly in the path of the ball, but have a mastery of controlling ball trajectory. It seems like ball trajectory is a problem because those who have mastered the proper techniques are silently laughing at people who broadcast their weaknesses and get all the attention. It's analogous to people wanting to blame the ball when they throw a pick... Sounds silly. That's because it is silly... Step up, master the techniques, and quit blaming EA for our errors - correct them instead. Only then can EA focus on correcting what's REALLY wrong with the series. Later

Learning proper technique doesn't excuse the fact the way the jumping deflections work is not realistic.

Doing that while moving and momentum going in different directions and having to time it perfectly while not even knowing if the ball is going to the underneath guy or not - I don't think they are going to get the full amount of their jump. That video Broncos posted showed it.

That defender didn't have time to "load up" and get his full vertical, so he wasn't able to tip the pass. Players in Madden don't have to "load up" to get their full vertical. You hit the button and up they go. Jumping should work like passing, imo. Hold down for the max leap (at the expense of slower execution just like in real life a full jump is going to take you longer to execute than a quick hop), tap for more of a "hop" type move. Quicker, but not full vertical range.

This would also help JMP matter more. They could spread it out and the 90s could do more with their "hop" than the 60s, who'd need more full jumps and have a harder time timing it right.

It doesn't help that they are input reading so they know, even before you release the ball, where you're going (so they know if they need to even jump or not) and with what timing (especially since you can't change your release point, release speed and all QBs have the same release speed).

Passes also travel with too little velocity. See how hard Peyton threw that pass? In Madden, that pass would "linger" more (especially playing at Normal game speed or less), giving defenders more time to react. Only the lesser-armed QBs should throw "lingering" passes unless doing a pure touch pass like a fade or a lob that you're laying up to a wide open WR to make dropping it almost impossible.

Yes, you can learn how to get around it. That doesn't mean its working like it should.

Sometimes the User can learn more and improve his/her game. Unless any of us are perfect players, we all have things we can work on.

Sometimes, Madden needs to get better to. You may call it patting people on the head, but I call it seeing both sides of the coin. Madden isn't the perfect game, so it has areas to work on as well.

Again, in this case, I think both are right. Some guys may need more work in passing and Madden needs to represent this type of pass in a more realistic manner.