Madden last gen vs. next (current gen)

[RGiles36]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

I disagree on one point though. I am not so sure any of that stuff is improved. Seems about the same to me. If it is improved, it is either to such a small degree that it would sicken me to liken it to an improvement, or I'm just so jaded from years of seeing these issues, long before it felt like anyone else did, that I can't even tell when one of the legacy issues has seen incremental improvements. I would go with the former though.

I def think that it has improved.

Look at the 2nd video that PG posted. Although it's a play-action play, the trench battle is a mess. It looks a lot better today. Run blocking is another serious improvement in Madden today that wasn't in previous gen Maddens.

[Armor and Sword]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

You are echoing the same things I said. Or rather I'm echoing what you said, since you posted it before I did lol. I didn't read it till after I posted though. I disagree on one point though. I am not so sure any of that stuff is improved. Seems about the same to me. If it is improved, it is either to such a small degree that it would sicken me to liken it to an improvement, or I'm just so jaded from years of seeing these issues, long before it felt like anyone else did, that I can't even tell when one of the legacy issues has seen incremental improvements. I would go with the former though.

Legacy issues are still there. However the running game is much better now then last gen. Tackling though has gone backwards IMO. The passing game feels exactly the same. The WR animations are better now. Obviously the graphics are far better. Franchise mode up until Madden 12 was far better. 12 made some strides and brought back old features and added some new ones too.

I won't even talk about presentation in regards to play by play and color. It has never been that good. I think Madden 12 and Madden 2005 are far and away the best 2 versions of this series. Both have some edges over each other.

Bottom line is the game needs an overhaul for me to keep purchasing in the future. It needs a true physics engine and drastic improvement on and off the field to make it a "wow you have to play Madden now" vs.....yep it's Madden..it has felt the same for a while now. They need to shake things up. I think their legacy buyers (like myself since 1991) are losing a lot of interest. 12 made a lot of strides. But it still fell short of my expectations now that I have played the heck out of it. The gameplay warts are really getting bigger and bigger each year in my franchise. The tackling and passing game is really annoying the heck out of me now. Every tackle the ball carries or WR goes flying in a heap....every single tackle. No wrap up tackles, no gang tackles....just the same big jarring pinball bumper hit. Stinks. Then there is the passing game....sigh.

Come on EA...rebuild this game and make it epic! I am pulling for you.

[juggalotusx]

I must be the only one who cant stand the progression system used in madden and think it should be based on a performance progression instead of a umm hmm well Im not actually sure how they figure out progression in madden whether it be the Letter grade ABCDF system that holds players in place so they dont get to low or high or a age progression system that is not always the case. ill give you an example of what im talking about Adrian foster in the beginning was rated a 69 I believe by the end of the year he was a 94 I think because he performed great during the season, that guy tore it up over many games to have that type of impact in the nf. All I want to see is If I use a player like Justin smith and he has the career year of his life let him go up not down cause he is old or even crabtree If i have 16 TDs in a season let me go into the 90s. Am I the only one who wants this or thinks this..

[Only1LT]

I will give you guys that INITIAL run-blocking is better, but that's it. The blockers, for the most part, follow the play art and block who they are supposed... more or less. After that, all bets are off. The FB is totally clueless and will often run away from the hole he shouldn't, and on the times that he does pick the right one, he will often run through it and then decide to turn around and run back through the hole to block someone in the backfield that is out of the play, essentially stuffing you in the hole better than Ray Lewis ever could.

Open field blocking is just as big a mess as it ever was.

The animations are terrible and always have been. Period. You want to tell me they are slightly more or less terrible than last gen? I'm out of that argument. Less terrible isn't an improvement in my book.

Just look at the clips that PG posted. That looks like the same crazy locomotion weird running to me. Does it render a wee bit better on last gen? Sure, but a perfectly rendered terrible animation is still terrible. It's just a smoother terrible animation.

I could go on and on. Ball trajectory, ball physics, suction, warping, psychic defenders, tackling, yadda, yadda, ad infinitum...

Again, they rebuilt Madden from the ground up on current gen to play exactly like last gen, and guess what? They succeeded by an overwhelming margin. Legacy issues and all.

Am I saying that there is absolutely no difference between the two, or that there has been absolutely no improvement? No, but again, they are much more similar than they are dissimilar, therefore it stands to reason that you can not praise one and condemn the other.

The two main things that are different about last gen Madden and current gen is that last gen had more features, and current gen has HD graphics. Anyone that sees much more different than that is speaking a language I don't understand.

[PGaither84]

Quote: Originally Posted by juggalotusx

I must be the only one who cant stand the progression system used in madden and think it should be based on a performance progression instead of a umm hmm well Im not actually sure how they figure out progression in madden...

I'll try to nip this in the bud right here.

Players don't get better because they put up good stats. They put up good stats because they: 1.) Got better, 2.) Played in a system that took advantage of their abilities, 3.) Played with talented team mates.

Players get better because they work hard and learn. Some players are late bloomers. Some players aren't very good at adapting to the ever changing NFL. As players and coaches get more and more ilm on you, they find your weaknesses, then they attack those weaknesses. They force you to adapt and improve your play. Some players can... some can't. As a result, some player have a strong start to their careers and then appear to "get worse."

Quote:

ill give you an example of what im talking about Adrian foster in the beginning was rated a 69 I believe by the end of the year he was a 94 I think because he performed great during the season, that guy tore it up over many games to have that type of impact in the nfl.

Arian foster was underrated by Dony Moore in Madden. He wasn't "a 64 OVR" in real life. He was a vastly underrated "94 OVR player." his performance on the field showed us all how vastly underrated he was.

Quote:

All I want to see is If I use a player like Justin smith and he has the career year of his life let him go up not down cause he is old or even crabtree If i have 16 TDs in a season let me go into the 90s. Am I the only one who wants this or thinks this..

You are not the only one who thinks that, but it is not realistic.

Right now, potential has an impact on how quickly a player progresses and what their max progression is... and how slowly their regression is. You are free to edit and change it if you disagree.

If you draft an A potential rookie and he rides the bench, i think he progresses about 4 points or so in OVR simply because he is maturing. If he goes out and gets playing time and excels, he progresses even more. This let's a young player develop. He may not be a starter today, but in a season or two he will be better prepared. Think of Bowman... he hardly played two years ago. Last year he out played Willis.

Players like Aldon Smith are kind of interesting. He is already and 88 OVR with 99 power moves and 97 block shedding. How much more is he going to progress? He can improve his tackling, which I also think is really high. He can get better in man/zone coverage, but who cares? He's and edge rusher.

[Big FN Deal]

Even though I agree with OnlyLT about Madden never being a good simulation of NFL football on any console, I have found next-gen a regression overall. I began to realize the proverbial Emperor's new clothes was merely a birthday suit in 1999 when the Dreamcast debuted that other game, so by 2000 I was only playing Madden at family and friend get togethers. I believe EA football players have been "ice skating" for a looooooong time and we all know the DEEP dropback is as signature as John's name. lol

All that said though, I remember before I knew about the NFL exclusive me and two buddies had played that other game in the ground, so we decided to try out Madden 2005 on the Xbox. So when Madden 06 came out, I was trying to understand how it was possible to release a Madden on new generation consoles, that had less features than last gen.

I don't think I have ever really been that frustrated with Madden's unfluid movement or "ice skating" because that's Madden but all those things like morale, chemistry, mass substitutions, the newspaper/Tony Bruno Show (which I thought was bland compared to SportsCenter but at least the Franchise had something to make it "living") and whatnot, just were thrown away for next-gen. I was really dumbfounded at the fact that EA was actually making Madden more arcade/unrealistic going forward, not less. I think QB Vision really cemented that belief for me because even though the premise is "sim to the nth degree" that f'n arcadey "flashlight" graphic, killed any sense of realism or immersion, for me.

So I can understand when people wish for the good ole Madden days, even though I personally wasn't too fond of it back then. Also I think that a lot of Madden gamers expectations have matured overtime and been expanded by being exposed to so many other other sports simulations, in comparison to Madden.

Small town beauty queens and romeos can quickly become a butterface in more populated areas, likewise for last gen Madden in Gaming mags opposed to next-gen Madden on the world wide web. lol

[gjneff]

On the progression issue both sides are wrong. A player may not get better because they produce, but they do get more valuable. A player who produces becomes valuable. Sometimes they go somewhere else and can't do the same thing, but they have value while they are producing. Madden needs a way to recreating this. Right now it is their overall. I am in favor of a value rating of some sort to replace overall. There should be something though.

[PGaither84]

Progression has to do with improving a player's skill, and regression the opposite. it has nothing to do with value.

On the other hand, OVR is supposed to be value. that's how OVR worked in Head Coach. Frank Gore didn't have different ratings if you traded him to another team, but that team might value him differently than you do. Also, if I fire mike Martz in HC and hire a different Offensive coordinator who is more run oriented, Frank isn't going to magically get better, but his value [OVR rating] will change. That isn't how it works in Madden, but it would be nice if it did.

In Madden 11 [I haven't played enough Madden 12 to know for sure] Crabtree is an A potential receiver. Even if he only has a moderate 2010 season, his A potential will help him improve his route running, catching, and catch in traffic. That is the game's way of saying that Crabtree matures and improves. If he has an amazing year he improves a little bit more, but not much. Progression and regression are influenced only a little by production, but they are influenced.

I liek he way it is done. Not perfect, but nice.