What Effect Has The Madden Community Had On Substantially Changing Next-Gen Madden?

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by berad88

I am sorry if I misunderstood. I think there would be a whole lot less depth to the game and a lot more gimmicks without the community. Things like create a fan and create a sign and stuff like that would be in the game in full force. Stuff that was getting put in the game before the community had a voice. I think there are some people that know that EA does listen but they like to pretend that EA does not because their expectations are too high for right now or to be put in the game in one year. Today a half hour video was put up on OS about F1 2012. Please keep reading. I know that F1 is not a popular sport in the US but I am a huge fan of F1 so I watched the video. While watching the video the developers mention how in other sports games the developers of those games just make roster updates and little improvements from year to year and that is all they need to do to sell the game. I think that used to be true at one time. I know that Madden got a really backwards start on this generation of console but I think EA is really trying and I think they are trying because of the community. They are clearly doing more than just giving us a roster update. I think Madden 13 is going to be huge. I think the Madden Community is to thank for that and obviously EA listens to us. I think they really do want to make the ultimate football game. I think we all need to keep our expectations at a realistic level as well. A yearly release does not even give the developers a whole year to work on the game. The future looks great for Madden and this is because of the community.

Not to be rude Berad88 but I don't feel like you are answering the question and are instead giving generalities.

Let's say someone used the player movement finally added in M10 as an example of EA/Tiburon listening to the community. If that's true, who in the community was responsible for getting it taken out or toned down to almost nonexistent levels for M11 and M12?

How about during the M11 dev cycle when EA announced there wouldn't be anything much done to Franchise mode that year so they could overhaul it going forward but then stated submit all your suggestions for what we want added. What happened to all the Franchise suggestions and wishlists that had been submitted the previous 5 years? Also, as much as I am excited about CCM, the "Coach" control is pretty much HC09 with Madden game play, which make perfect sense considering Josh Looman created both but that's what M12's Franchise was based on too, so what happened to the suggestions they asked for back during M11?

I am not belittling the substantial changes made to next-gen Madden or denying they happened, I am just not sure that community interaction had much, if anything, to do with them coming about.

Community sales and various dev personnel changes, yes but community interaction, not so much.

[berad88]

I guess I am just not as bitter about the game as a lot of other people. A lot of stuff that has been removed I thought was crazy at first but now looking back things like tony bruno, those mini camp drills, and stuff like that I don't miss at all.
I know that removing editing players, controlling all teams, and importing draft classes is a much bigger deal but from what has been said it seems that editing players and importing draft classes are guaranteed to make a quick return.

I cant say why anything gets cut out of the game. I don't make games. For all I know there could be a very legit reason why a trade off might have to get made.

I understand it is a game and I been playing it since way back on the Sega Genesis and it is a whole lot more realistic now than it was back then. I always find ways to enjoy it. I guess my expectations are a lot lower than most people. I know the game is not perfect but I find it to be fun.
I will close with that. There is no point in continuing. People that want to hate this game will continue to do so just like all the people that hate in every single other game forum out there.

[WillisFaithful]

Quote: Originally Posted by berad88

I guess I am just not as bitter about the game as a lot of other people. A lot of stuff that has been removed I thought was crazy at first but now looking back things like tony bruno, those mini camp drills, and stuff like that I don't miss at all. I know that removing editing players, controlling all teams, and importing draft classes is a much bigger deal but from what has been said it seems that editing players and importing draft classes are guaranteed to make a quick return. I cant say why anything gets cut out of the game. I don't make games. For all I know there could be a very legit reason why a trade off might have to get made. I understand it is a game and I been playing it since way back on the Sega Genesis and it is a whole lot more realistic now than it was back then. I always find ways to enjoy it. I guess my expectations are a lot lower than most people. I know the game is not perfect but I find it to be fun. I will close with that. There is no point in continuing. People that want to hate this game will continue to do so just like all the people that hate in every single other game forum out there.

I am very excited about Madden 13 .. in fact I'm probably one of those guys that most people here hate (I buy the game every year) ..

But EA knows people want control .. EA gave everyone control only to rip it away again ..

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

Not to be rude Berad88 but I don't feel like you are answering the question and are instead giving generalities. Let's say someone used the player movement finally added in M10 as an example of EA/Tiburon listening to the community. If that's true, who in the community was responsible for getting it taken out or toned down to almost nonexistent levels for M11 and M12? How about during the M11 dev cycle when EA announced there wouldn't be anything much done to Franchise mode that year so they could overhaul it going forward but then stated submit all your suggestions for what we want added. What happened to all the Franchise suggestions and wishlists that had been submitted the previous 5 years? Also, as much as I am excited about CCM, the "Coach" control is pretty much HC09 with Madden game play, which make perfect sense considering Josh Looman created both but that's what M12's Franchise was based on too, so what happened to the suggestions they asked for back during M11? I am not belittling the substantial changes made to next-gen Madden or denying they happened, I am just not sure that community interaction had much, if anything, to do with them coming about. Community sales and various dev personnel changes, yes but community interaction, not so much.

I mentioned earlier in the thread that I thought we had influence once, but now, I don't think we had as much.

I know I've brought this up before, but Ian, after Madden 10 hit the streets, came out with a list that EA put 90% of the suggestions from OS into Madden 10. Anyone that was around here for that, remembers that.

Ever since that developer interaction faded from OS, I've felt the influencing slipping away. This coincides, besides RG, not many GC's represent OS anymore.

At the end of the day, I feel marketing and the design team have more influence and make the final decisions on what goes in Madden and what is put on the chopping block. I recall the OS people that made a visit to CD for Madden 10 and I think, if I recall, they asked run blocking to become better and in Madden 11, run blocking was addressed.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

I mentioned earlier in the thread that I thought we had influence once, but now, I don't think we had as much. I know I've brought this up before, but Ian, after Madden 10 hit the streets, came out with a list that EA put 90% of the suggestions from OS into Madden 10. Anyone that was around here for that, remembers that. Ever since that developer interaction faded from OS, I've felt the influencing slipping away. This coincides, besides RG, not many GC's represent OS anymore. At the end of the day, I feel marketing and the design team have more influence and make the final decisions on what goes in Madden and what is put on the chopping block. I recall the OS people that made a visit to CD for Madden 10 and I think, if I recall, they asked run blocking to become better and in Madden 11, run blocking was addressed.

To the bold, if that's true and run blocking was indeed changed in just one year from community suggestions at CD, then why are so many other things claimed to take years?

I am not coming at you Road, I am just saying something has got to give. If these things take time because the code in Madden is so jacked up or whatever then substantial changes have to be preplanned. However, if substantial change can be made in just one year one time, then that should be possible every time.

Like I said earlier, if someone can demonstrate that the community had substantial influence on ___ then why not ___ too?

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

To the bold, if that's true and run blocking was indeed changed in just one year from community suggestions at CD, then why are so many other things claimed to take years? I am not coming at you Road, I am just saying something has got to give. If these things take time because the code in Madden is so jacked up or whatever then substantial changes have to be preplanned. However, if substantial change can be made in just one year one time, then that should be possible every time. Like I said earlier, if someone can demonstrate that the community had substantial influence on ___ then why not ___ too?

Oh, I know you weren't coming after me, just the process. I don't have any answers beyond that.

Let's hope with the new engine, things can be implemented in a meaningful and quick fashion. I recall Ian mentioning they spent a ton of time ripping out the old code for run blocking and putting in the new code.

[shaunlmason]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

I don't know that because some things we asked for eventually changed means we affected due to the timing. If you told someone every day for 3 years they needed to get a shorter haircut because it would look better and finally one day they did it, that doesn't mean you affected what they did. That seems more like they finally decided that's what they wanted to do and who knows what if any affect your insistent or suggesting had. Same thing with next-gen Madden, FIFA, NHL and NBA Live all implemented physics first along with HC09 having scheme based ratings, so those things could very well just be a natural progression. Right now there are many on the Madden dev team from EA Canada so I wouldn't be surprised at all to see Madden continue to follow in the mold of the FIFA and NHL with upgraded AI and the next steps in physics for Madden 14. Like I said in the OP, that stuff seems far more like an affect due to personnel changes than due to community influence, imo. Hopefully some CD/CE attendees and EA Game Changers will chime in to give their opinions on how they believe their direct interaction with EA/Tiburon has substantially affected Madden. Also, for full disclosure, anyone in that group that does chime in, my follow up question will be "Then why is it that you could affect ____ but not ____?"

I'll take your bait.

First, a couple of disclaimers:

• This is only my opinion.
• I did ZERO with Madden this year, it was all NCAA this cycle.

Those out of the way, I don't imagine that my involvement on the NCAA side of things is any different than the involvement of the EA SPORT Game Changers on the Madden side. I'll be the first to tell you that I know for a fact that my involvement has shaped the NCAA Football series.

Have I been able to see everything I hope to see happen occur in one cycle? No. Have I seen many changes happen this cycle? Yes. Many of the changes made at my suggestion you might never know unless you look for it. Examples include; recruiting screen layouts, tuning in Heisman recruiting in dynasty, many balancing adjustments in recruiting, tuning to how players react in situations, etc. If you could have seen the difference in "Total Control Passing" from the first day we saw it until now it would be obvious how our feedback is utilized.

I imagine it is frustrating for the "outsider" to imagine how the Game Changer program works, even though it is possibly the most transparent part of EA SPORTS. I think many don't feel we actually accomplish anything. I know how useful we are because we are constantly the conduit used by EA SPORTS when they want feedback.

To your larger question, what effect (sic) has the Madden community had on change? I think the answer is far more complicated than I can express. Without vocal communities there would have been no interaction from EA. Without that interaction the potential for utilization wouldn't have existed. Without recognizing that potential the Game Changers wouldn't have been born.

I'll say this: my opinion is that the Game Changers collectively are the most powerful influence on the games at Tiburon currently, outside of the team AT Tiburon. There was a time that individual online communities held more sway, but the Game Changers are supposed to reflect the desires of those communities now. That is a responsibility I think about constantly.

In anticipation of your follow up question: Then why is it that you could affect ____ but not ____?

The answer to that has many facets, some things don't change because:

• The development road map dictates the change will occur in the future.
• The underlying implementation makes the change either high risk or difficult.
• It is too late in the cycle to confirm the effects of the change suggested.
• The change is considered lower priority than other items currently being worked on.
• Cost vs Reward is low.
• The design is functioning as EA intends (i.e. my opinion is vetoed by theirs)
• Other Game Changers disagree with my wants.

Shaun

[Yeats]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

What Affect Has The Madden Community Had On Substantially Changing Next-Gen Madden?

Considering Madden on the Xbox 360 was, according to the trailer EA put out in 2006, supposed to look like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02ajP...eature=related

...the answer to your question apparently is "No affect whatsoever."