What Effect Has The Madden Community Had On Substantially Changing Next-Gen Madden?

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Yeats

After I had that phone interview (more like a conference call) with about 5 members of the development team last summer regarding a M13 position, I think I have changed my opinion about those guys a bit. The fact that they flat out told me that most of their ratings are "pressured" by the marketing entities at EA/Tiburon/NFL made me believe that the ratings issues will never be fixed. They really seemed to have their hands tied with pressure from above to do things a particular way. I used to think that these devs had total control over the development of the game but I was disappointed to find that they have very little power. Guess they are the drones...around merely to do the work. I also got the impression that Donny Moore has no clue what he is doing. I spoke with him exclusively for about 5 minutes and picked his brain about where he gets his info. He never mentioned anything about data, just watching games and clips. That was severely disappointing. I got the impression that these devs want to do more with the game for the better, but they simply are not allowed to - their leashes are too short. ~Dan (DCEBB2001) http://www.operationsports.com/forum...e-game-73.html

They only thing I can say besides I'm not surprised, is that maybe with Cam Weber in charge, marketing won't have as much of an impact on dictating how the game is manufactured or played.

That was a year ago.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by Yeats

After I had that phone interview (more like a conference call) with about 5 members of the development team last summer regarding a M13 position, I think I have changed my opinion about those guys a bit. The fact that they flat out told me that most of their ratings are "pressured" by the marketing entities at EA/Tiburon/NFL made me believe that the ratings issues will never be fixed. They really seemed to have their hands tied with pressure from above to do things a particular way. I used to think that these devs had total control over the development of the game but I was disappointed to find that they have very little power. Guess they are the drones...around merely to do the work. I also got the impression that Donny Moore has no clue what he is doing. I spoke with him exclusively for about 5 minutes and picked his brain about where he gets his info. He never mentioned anything about data, just watching games and clips. That was severely disappointing. I got the impression that these devs want to do more with the game for the better, but they simply are not allowed to - their leashes are too short. ~Dan (DCEBB2001) http://www.operationsports.com/forum...e-game-73.html

Good post, and while I agree with this to some degree, EVERY development shop goes through this in all kinds of software, not just games. Also, that doesn't stop the dev team from polishing what IS in the game. Madden has enough elements of football in the game, but those existing elements are not done well. For example, players ARE able to run, block and tackle, correct? Referees are able to call some penalties. The crowd is in the game. Commentators are already in the game. I don't think it is fair to make this excuse. Many of the other developers have the same restrictions (including the other development houses at EA). They work the same amount of hours and have the same types of deadlines, yet they manage to produce polished products. With Madden, we wait 2 to 3 years (if we are lucky) for something to be redone because it wasn't done right (if at all). Evolution and progress is painfully slow resulting in some people just giving up all together. They get tired of waiting for simple things to be at a mere acceptable level. Instead we still compare elements of Madden to older games and older series.

I think it's cool that EA feels the community should get involved, but I don't see the massive need for it when it comes to how to represent the NFL. Rather than bringing in guys who make thousands of dollars writing madden nano blitz guides, why not meet with NFL coaches or gurus from the league itself, instead? Or how about watching NFL broadcasts? From there you can see exactly how games are presented on television along with all of the player movement, mannerisms and actions you need to ever see. Do your best to copy that. There is no need to make the game like APF or 2k5 - those games simply copied the NFL in the areas they have done well. For example, one area of Madden I happen to think is extremely well done (from everything I have read and seen obviously) is the connected careers mode. What made it great? It mimics a lot of REAL life. The news stories and feeds, the lingering injuries, the rookies, practice, players progressing or regressing based on coaching decisions. This stuff isn't rocket science. It seems that Looman and his team took a look at what happens in real life and tried to emulate it in the game - go figure.

Let's take one of the things that was touted for gameplay this year. 430 new catching animations. Ok, that is cool, however I don't think many in the community were asking for "more catching animations". If I had to be honest, if they hadn't said anything, I would not have known they added 430 new catch animations. Instead of packing in "more animations", how about taking a look at the ones you have and asking yourself why they don't look very good. Why didn't one of the gameplay developers look at 100 hours of receivers catching the football? How do they react when balls are thrown behind them, over their head, low, too far out in front, etc. etc. Hate to do this, but once again, in all pro football, you see the receivers contort, turn their body, reach for the ball, bobble passes etc. etc. You don't see those in Madden and it immediately kills the immersion. I'll save the details for another thread asking for things to be added, but the point is that community feedback shouldn't be needed for that. Let's not even go there about running and player movement in the game. So let me get this straight... The community is needed to constantly harp on you about running and player movement? Would they not have decided to do something had there not been an outcry? If you can't recognize how silly Madden looks in motion on your own, then maybe you shouldn't be working on it.

[roadman]

Quote: Originally Posted by tazdevil20

why not meet with NFL coaches or gurus from the league itself, instead?

I thought I read somewhere that they received advisement from Chidlress and another coach or ex-coach this year.

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by roadman

They only thing I can say besides I'm not surprised, is that maybe with Cam Weber in charge, marketing won't have as much of an impact on dictating how the game is manufactured or played. That was a year ago.

Yeah, you have been consistently pointing the finger at marketing but at the end of the day, that's still EA's fault. I wonder does a different marketing team or department handle Madden than games like FIFA and NHL. I really don't have a politically correct term for what seems to be going on, it all just seems stupid. Many people have said, including myself, "it must be good business because they are making money" but that's over simplified. Like the saying goes, they could defecate in a box, label it Madden and make money, so this other stuff is just stupid.

We basically have people that likely don't even play Madden, referring mainly to marketing, making decisions about what makes Madden "fun" to play. Manipulated focus group numbers by bringing in other people that likely don't play Madden or even watch NFL football and maybe some that do but then pushing preconceived ideas on them, that likely don't resemble football. I am not some naive person that doesn't think marketing effects things with other games but the point is, marketing shouldn't be effecting EVERYTHING. The NFL elements in Madden should be based on simply that, the NFL. Marketing, R&D and ratings "teams" can have all the artistic license that want for things like MUT modes, that everyone clearly understands is about NFL based "fun", not NFL simulation. However, WTF marketing, R&D or ratings "teams" for the NFL simulation aspects of Madden have to do with anything other than emulating the NFL, is beyond me.

Also to any EAGCs or CE attendees that I may have unintentionally offended at some point, my bad but somebody could have dropped me a coded PM or something, lol. I honestly ain't mad at you guys because we are all just along for the ride and it would do no good to tell the whole world the world is ending when you know there is nothing that can be done about it. Yeah that's facetious and Madden is not that serious but the point is I get it now, "it is what it is", wink-wink. *So I will be putting in my Game Changer/CE application just for the simple math of having EA/Tiburon spend far more money on me than I have for all the next-gen Maddens combined and that's good business, imo.

*Disclaimer: That was not a shot at any EAGCs or CE attendees because it's evident some of you guys may lose more money from missing work than what EA/Tiburon spends on you for these programs.

[videlsports]

Yes I think the community had an effect on the how the games are leaning, you have to know your smart Fan base and search on the websites giving their opinions. And with the NFL agreement possibly coming to an end with the exclusive agreement, They had to start showing Changes.