Madden 13 Roundtable

[Crimsontide27]

Quote: Originally Posted by tazdevil20

It's not that hard though. Simply replicate the sport that is already designed for you. Player movement and animations should be the most basic and not too tough at this stage. Functions such as roster rules, free agency, waiver wires, and other basic functions of the NFL are already designed. Injury systems and drafts - already designed. Presentation and broadcast elements - already designed. They have forgotten that they are making a football game that should be designed to replicate it's real life counterpart. Instead they feel the need to invent their own brand of football in every way imaginable.

Its actually very hard and a complicated process to master.

For example, the fans want the best product possible each year

The software team wants to make the best product they can

The management team wants to beat last year sales by as little as possible

The exec team wants as little growth as possible, all while keeping a strict budget and careful not to cut, or spend...too little or too much.

Its a very difficult balance to obtain.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by Crimsontide27

Its actually very hard and a complicated process to master. For example, the fans want the best product possible each year The software team wants to make the best product they can The management team wants to beat last year sales by as little as possible The exec team wants as little growth as possible, all while keeping a strict budget and careful not to cut, or spend...too little or too much. Its a very difficult balance to obtain.

Fair enough. Don't other sports franchises face the same issues?

[Crimsontide27]

Yes, but most other sports companies dont have to justify a $400m dollar investment either. From a business standpoint, EA has done a brillant job at releasing Madden with as few upgrades as it has and still maintains a loyal player base.

If Madden was all of a sudden to release with every problem fixed, then less people would buy it next year unless they deemed the upgrade from the previous year. This is why the upgrades are so small in nature, or in fact...broken just enough that you want that " next year" feeling that a lot of people get here. Im sure browesing through the threads you see it as well. Everyone is always talking about how Madden is just "almost" there...and with a few tweaks it will hit greatness. These same people go out and buy it again next year, to only find out that some other area of the game has taken a hit...., but maybe "next year", that will be hashed out and the process repeats itself. The whole idea is a business model called "Hooking" the customer. The idea is to just give you enough that you want more later.

Just like many other business use the Same Store Sales model, EA does as well. As long as there is an increase in sales, its all good...even if only by 1 game. It keeps expectations realistic for not only the company, but investors as well. Right now Madden has been losing steam, but not by much. Right now though there is an entire generation that has known nothing but Madden, and they expect to capitalize on that as the next generation gets ready to kick off over the next few years.

[slick589]

I think the reason i (and maybe others) have such a problem with madden is bc i have a vast knowledge of the game of football. Im not saying im a guru but ive played coached watched and loved the game my whole life. What madden has gave players since current gen systems is not football. Thinks crucial to the game are ignored or implemented poorly, i.e acceleration/deceleration, footplanting/cutting, wr/db jostling, ol/dl handfighting, zone defense responsibilities, edge rushers, tiered defensive play cAlling. All of these things ARE football yet fall by the wayside year after year.

[GiantBlue76]

Quote: Originally Posted by Crimsontide27

Yes, but most other sports companies dont have to justify a $400m dollar investment either. From a business standpoint, EA has done a brillant job at releasing Madden with as few upgrades as it has and still maintains a loyal player base. If Madden was all of a sudden to release with every problem fixed, then less people would buy it next year unless they deemed the upgrade from the previous year. This is why the upgrades are so small in nature, or in fact...broken just enough that you want that " next year" feeling that a lot of people get here. Im sure browesing through the threads you see it as well. Everyone is always talking about how Madden is just "almost" there...and with a few tweaks it will hit greatness. These same people go out and buy it again next year, to only find out that some other area of the game has taken a hit...., but maybe "next year", that will be hashed out and the process repeats itself. The whole idea is a business model called "Hooking" the customer. The idea is to just give you enough that you want more later. Just like many other business use the Same Store Sales model, EA does as well. As long as there is an increase in sales, its all good...even if only by 1 game. It keeps expectations realistic for not only the company, but investors as well. Right now Madden has been losing steam, but not by much. Right now though there is an entire generation that has known nothing but Madden, and they expect to capitalize on that as the next generation gets ready to kick off over the next few years.

You are basically validating what many on here have already suspected (and feared). They really won't have to care about the loyal fans of old. So many newer customers will be buying the game every year, especially since they know nothing of the better iterations of football of the past. The reality is that there is always plenty to do to create a better game each year, no matter how good it is. This is exactly why so many people hate this studio. How come this is not the model used by FIFA, NBA 2k, MLB the Show?

[slick589]

Quote: Originally Posted by Crimsontide27

Yes, but most other sports companies dont have to justify a $400m dollar investment either. From a business standpoint, EA has done a brillant job at releasing Madden with as few upgrades as it has and still maintains a loyal player base. If Madden was all of a sudden to release with every problem fixed, then less people would buy it next year unless they deemed the upgrade from the previous year. This is why the upgrades are so small in nature, or in fact...broken just enough that you want that " next year" feeling that a lot of people get here. Im sure browesing through the threads you see it as well. Everyone is always talking about how Madden is just "almost" there...and with a few tweaks it will hit greatness. These same people go out and buy it again next year, to only find out that some other area of the game has taken a hit...., but maybe "next year", that will be hashed out and the process repeats itself. The whole idea is a business model called "Hooking" the customer. The idea is to just give you enough that you want more later. Just like many other business use the Same Store Sales model, EA does as well. As long as there is an increase in sales, its all good...even if only by 1 game. It keeps expectations realistic for not only the company, but investors as well. Right now Madden has been losing steam, but not by much. Right now though there is an entire generation that has known nothing but Madden, and they expect to capitalize on that as the next generation gets ready to kick off over the next few years.

How do you explain NBA 2k and even EAs own FIFA and NHL doing so well sale wise year after year. They got the core of their respective games down pat and that keeps old fans coming back and new fans coming in like myself who never had an interest in soccer or hockey until i played those games.

[JerzeyReign]

Having not read thru this thread, they aren't saying anything that we haven't said. Their opinions about the game mean zilch honestly - and thats not a personal attack.

Instead of a vague "interview" I'd much rather see them publish their ideas. That article was nothing more than them regurgitating the same things that we've been saying.

I really want to see them get into a LBz, Ryan Moody or even an old school 'The Sim Standard' breakdown of gameplay or whats needed. That would be interesting.

[Crimsontide27]

Quote: Originally Posted by JerzeyReign

Having not read thru this thread, they aren't saying anything that we haven't said. Their opinions about the game mean zilch honestly - and thats not a personal attack. Instead of a vague "interview" I'd much rather see them publish their ideas. That article was nothing more than them regurgitating the same things that we've been saying. I really want to see them get into a LBz, Ryan Moody or even an old school 'The Sim Standard' breakdown of gameplay or whats needed. That would be interesting.

Everyone knows what needs to be done. Its not a secret on what needs to be improved or fixed at all. LBz has excellent analysis, and he has shared it with the team already.

Madden is going to continue the same process as usual, even when next gen comes out. They will release a decent title with several key components broken, get people to buy it the next year saying that those issues are fixed...but will create a new set of problems to get the next set of people to buy.

The old Sim gamers as people refer to themselves, or long time Madden fans are not the target market at all. Its all the new people. In the same vein that people here have been going round and round in circles about buying / not buying the product after ( insert year here ), there is about to be a brand new entire generation buying Madden titles that have no idea what is broken, what was fixed, what has or has not been done before etc....and the cycle will repeat itself again. If this site is still around in 2020, you will see the same scenario still playing out. All the new players from the 720 / PS4 era will be complaining by the end of those consoles life and trying to warn all the new players coming when the 1080 / PS5 releases.