Madden NFL 25 - Looking at Five Major Areas in the Running Game (MyMaddenPad)

[hanzsomehanz]

Quote: Originally Posted by Trick13

I get where you are coming from - and I am all for "ratings governance" - but watch that third video - it is a 300+ lbs DT prospect - and it very well may make you take a step back and say "my gosh, these "elephants" move more like "cheetahs" than I thought"...

"Sly covers 10yards in 2.085s - better than the average for the 2013 combine RB draftees and can accelerate upto 16MpH"

SLY is a Freak!

I hear your advocation and would not label him an elephant but more like a rhino with that kind of charge.

We are humans, unique creatures ourselves and as such some of us have hips like gazelles and size like elephants.

Kearse was a freak and he met his bumps. Suh is a prototype freak amd he has met his limitations too. SLY will not be going against dummy bags in the NFL and that wear and tear will degrade his max.

*If Sylvester Williams deserves a 92+ accel, give it to him but in no way is that the base, more like the bar for DTs.

We know this was one of the weakest RB classes to come out since maybe the year Curtis Ennis got drafted pick 5 RD1 by the Bears in '98.

I would infer further that the acceleration is too overpowering in Madden as it is, universally, and this is why we lack that gradient effect of four different top speed thresholds.

Since it would be more far-fetched to see EA change the rating relativity, I find it more reasonable to encourage a change in relativity for acceleration directly so the rating values carry a new weight.



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[Trick13]

I am not arguing against more weight on ACC, that is a great idea, and really not arguing against the "removal" of "sprint", more over I would like it, just someone is gonna have to drastically modify the controllers, or make an aftermarket "high tension sticks" controller to get the kind of control where it would make sense...

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by hanzsomehanz

Returning to your point, KB, could you elaborate on your allusion to the governance of ratings? Im starting to grasp the validity in acceleration but I am def clear on stamina and more so on speed. I would like to hear your insight on Accel though. If I dont accelerate the player I can still drive him with the left stick which means he is already in motion. Im starting to understand the key to your point. Is there a neutral point you are hinting at? In a driving game, I cannot initiate forward or reverse progress until I put my foot to the pedal. In this event the drive pedal is Left Stick. I think you are saying the auto-sprint may be gone but auto-accelerate still exists and should be next to be removed? My only claim to that Is that players are set in motion at the set of the whistle.

The way I see ACC being used is how quickly the player goes from slower speed to higher speed - no matter where higher or lower is. So if I'm going from 30% to 60%, or 20% to 100% - ACC = the rate the player actually gains velocity. So this brings in actual physics. We have his max speed and his rate of acceleration.

In real life, when a player starts running, be it the 40 or an out route or a juke, the player is going from a slower speed to a higher one. How quickly he does that is his acceleration ability.

So on the snap, let's say I'm doing a run play, the QB hands the ball off. The HB is in motion and now the circle is under him, so it's on me.

If I don't touch the stick (and assuming not in a coach mode), he'll come to an eventual stop/very slow speed (which might be useful, too...perhaps to get those chop steps/stutter steps in the mix - letting go of the stick would be the easiest way to do that from a control standpoint). If I do move the stick, he'll go towards a speed based on how hard my stick goes.

If my stick is about 50%, he'll go at not quite his full speed, just like in, say, Warriors Orochi 3 where I can make my character walk by pushing up half way, or go full speed by pushing far enough up.

So the PS3 obviously can tell a difference between the levels of the stick. I notice this as well when I use my stick with my PC emulator. It registers between -1 to 1 on both the X and Y axis.

So I'm envisioning using the L stick for this. Basically the L stick sets the "goal speed" of the player. Pushing on the accelerator is you moving the stick forward. Steering left and right would be moving the L stick left and right. Slamming the break is pulling back.

With this, we could do ALL moves of a halfback. A juke would be a quick hard left then full forward-right, having my player wanting to explode back to full speed after stabbing his foot into the ground. A stop-and-go move would be pulling back, then pushing forward again. And so on.

ACC would play into how quickly the player accelerates up to the speed. So a guy with 50 ACC trying a juke would not explode up to his top speed as quickly. He'll get there eventually if given enough space and time, but vs a 99 ACC, the control would feel more "clunky". That might sound like gimping the user, but it causes the user to change running style just like you don't drive a SUV like a Formula 1 car.

AGI could come into play here, too. That's like the "handling" of the car. A SUV has poor agility. That would be like a FB trying to cut like Barry Sanders - probably not happening. At more subtle differences, it creates separation not by "delaying" reaction, but because he can't "corner" as smoothly. He loses time and distance while the nimble athlete whips around almost without breaking stride. Now we have Jerry Rice vs a faster, but less smooth-footed DB. And then it brings in more user skill WITHOUT overriding ability. User skill becomes about melding with the player you're using.

STA of course modifies energy of the player and is like the gas in the tank. As it dwindles, SPD, AGI, ACC all suffer. Top speed wanes, the cuts get a little sloppier, the explosiveness wanes.

That's a lot of how I envision just the player's abilities doing the work without needing a "speed burst" button.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Trick13

I am not arguing against more weight on ACC, that is a great idea, and really not arguing against the "removal" of "sprint", more over I would like it, just someone is gonna have to drastically modify the controllers, or make an aftermarket "high tension sticks" controller to get the kind of control where it would make sense...

I don't know - I think it would just require a learning new "stick skills".

I ordered a $9.99 no-name PC controller to save wear on my PS3 controller (which will need replacing soon, poor thing is like Ed Reed - still can play but trying to hang on and past his prime).

I can get variance of how the stick registers. If some el cheapo controller like that can do it through an emulator - I would think at the very least the PS4 should be able to handle it if it's as powerful as it supposedly is going to be. It's dedicated to gaming and uses USB and if the processor is any good, reading the controller's input shouldn't cost much processor time.

It's more the programmers and us adapting, imo. I think the hardware can do it. Could us gamers do it (or be willing to learn) and could the programmers write efficient code to prevent hitches, frame loss, and lags? I think that's the harder question.

[Trick13]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

I don't know - I think it would just require a learning new "stick skills". I ordered a $9.99 no-name PC controller to save wear on my PS3 controller (which will need replacing soon, poor thing is like Ed Reed - still can play but trying to hang on and past his prime). I can get variance of how the stick registers. If some el cheapo controller like that can do it through an emulator - I would think at the very least the PS4 should be able to handle it if it's as powerful as it supposedly is going to be. It's dedicated to gaming and uses USB and if the processor is any good, reading the controller's input shouldn't cost much processor time. It's more the programmers and us adapting, imo. I think the hardware can do it. Could us gamers do it (or be willing to learn) and could the programmers write efficient code to prevent hitches, frame loss, and lags? I think that's the harder question.

My hesitation comes from playing some games where there is variable speed tied to the left stick - it is there and works well in those environments, but football is more strenuous and requires much more rapid changes in speed than any of those other games I have played.

I do like the idea, I just know EA has trouble implementing things and that is my biggest hesitation - their ability or inability to differentiate the controller input and the "weight" of ratings.

Example; Route running as a rating makes no substantial variances in the game play, I have tested this extensively, 50-99 makes no difference in the routes - so the only thing it might do is serve as a check vs Man Coverage to determine a win-lose scenario - but I would suggest that it should vary the "exactness" or lack of of routes - low RR players may break route off early or late, low RR rated players would be "slower" in and out of cuts on routes than their AGI, ACC would allow if they had 99 RR.

That is just one of many reasons why it gives me pause - not that the idea is bad, it is a great idea, but I feel like the controllers should be "tighter" and EA would have to be much better at implementation than they have ever even dreamed of...