Speed ratings in madden FLAWED...

[EMbow513]

Speed ratings are beyond flawed, i dont know why people here trying to defend eas ratings. Aj green speed should be between 92-93. Any one who seen him run knows he's faster than vincent jackson who is sloowww. He may have ran a 4.5 years ago but not anymore. Hes not fast as he used to be. Same thing for terrance newman and im a huge bengals fan but newman's speed shouldnt be near a damn 97

[KBLover]

The thing about speed in Madden is that there seems to be a LOT of "speed ratings".

Seems like most of the technique ratings that require significant movement to perform impact a player's speed when doing that particular thing:

PUR = Speed/Speed modifier when chasing a ball carrier. May also include blitzing speed (you're pursuing the QB after all).

MCV/ZCV = Speed/Speed modifier when in coverage (either getting to your zone or moving in reaction to route runners in your zone)

RTE = Speed/Speed modifier when running a route.

SPD = Speed when running with the football (and perhaps when user controlled).

Heck, TAK might be Speed/Speed modifier when close enough to the ball carrier to make a tackle.

I think that's at least part of why speed (and thus the speed threshold) impacts are hard to pin down.

Take 100 threshold - is it minimizing the impact of...what? RTE differences? PUR differences? PUR vs SPD differences? RTE vs MCV/ZCV differences? All of the above?

100 minimizes these, yet you can still blow by defenders as you can on 0. On 0, you can still get caught from behind by "slower" (read: lower SPD than the ball carrier) players.

It seems like this might be the reason why - and what's frustrating is that the technique doesn't necessarily deal with your physical speed:

RTE is crispness, fluidity, accuracy of the route - defining it to the QB, reading windows and coverages.

MCV/ZCV is reading the WR (in MCV), reacting to what's happening around you in space (ZCV), flowing to the ball in the air, anticipating correctly, handfighting/playing the ball as it nears the receiver.

PUR is anticipating/predicting where the ball carrier will be based on his and your movement. Taking correct angles. Closing correctly so you can set yourself up to make a good tackle.

TAK is good form, base, explosiveness through the ball carrier. Wrapping up and leveraging him to the ground. Knowing who to hit high or low. Keeping yourself stable against quick changes in directions/jukes.

And a lot of this is also where AWR/PRC should be used to slow reaction time. It might take me 3 seconds to get from here to there, but if I run to that spot in 2.5 seconds, but my "playing speed" is 3 seconds, then the rest is reaction time. I don't magically lose physical speed, I lose conviction of action, aggression, take longer to trust what I see, etc.

Just like Jerry Rice - his "playing speed" running routes did not diminish as much because he had better cuts and fluidity than a lot of guys covering him. Throw in reaction and the fact Rice probably gave defenders very little to read (hurting anticipating/causing more delay) - all those 0.1 seconds add up into 3-4 yards of consistent separation, more than enough for an accurate QB.

Yet all Madden can do is make a guy move faster or slower. And we wonder why SPD seems messed up?

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

The thing about speed in Madden is that there seems to be a LOT of "speed ratings". Seems like most of the technique ratings that require significant movement to perform impact a player's speed when doing that particular thing: PUR = Speed/Speed modifier when chasing a ball carrier. May also include blitzing speed (you're pursuing the QB after all). MCV/ZCV = Speed/Speed modifier when in coverage (either getting to your zone or moving in reaction to route runners in your zone) RTE = Speed/Speed modifier when running a route. SPD = Speed when running with the football (and perhaps when user controlled). Heck, TAK might be Speed/Speed modifier when close enough to the ball carrier to make a tackle. I think that's at least part of why speed (and thus the speed threshold) impacts are hard to pin down. Take 100 threshold - is it minimizing the impact of...what? RTE differences? PUR differences? PUR vs SPD differences? RTE vs MCV/ZCV differences? All of the above? 100 minimizes these, yet you can still blow by defenders as you can on 0. On 0, you can still get caught from behind by "slower" (read: lower SPD than the ball carrier) players. It seems like this might be the reason why - and what's frustrating is that the technique doesn't necessarily deal with your physical speed: RTE is crispness, fluidity, accuracy of the route - defining it to the QB, reading windows and coverages. MCV/ZCV is reading the WR (in MCV), reacting to what's happening around you in space (ZCV), flowing to the ball in the air, anticipating correctly, handfighting/playing the ball as it nears the receiver. PUR is anticipating/predicting where the ball carrier will be based on his and your movement. Taking correct angles. Closing correctly so you can set yourself up to make a good tackle. TAK is good form, base, explosiveness through the ball carrier. Wrapping up and leveraging him to the ground. Knowing who to hit high or low. Keeping yourself stable against quick changes in directions/jukes. And a lot of this is also where AWR/PRC should be used to slow reaction time. It might take me 3 seconds to get from here to there, but if I run to that spot in 2.5 seconds, but my "playing speed" is 3 seconds, then the rest is reaction time. I don't magically lose physical speed, I lose conviction of action, aggression, take longer to trust what I see, etc. Just like Jerry Rice - his "playing speed" running routes did not diminish as much because he had better cuts and fluidity than a lot of guys covering him. Throw in reaction and the fact Rice probably gave defenders very little to read (hurting anticipating/causing more delay) - all those 0.1 seconds add up into 3-4 yards of consistent separation, more than enough for an accurate QB. Yet all Madden can do is make a guy move faster or slower. And we wonder why SPD seems messed up?

Great post. Been saying that stuff for years around here....the "Speed is...well...Speed!" thread comes to mind. SPD is only a part of the equation. Speed gives a player the POTENTIAL to move faster than another. Whether the player meets that potential or not depends on his technique ie: the application of raw ability into a football-specific outcome.

[The_Rick_14]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

Just like Jerry Rice - his "playing speed" running routes did not diminish as much because he had better cuts and fluidity than a lot of guys covering him. Throw in reaction and the fact Rice probably gave defenders very little to read (hurting anticipating/causing more delay) - all those 0.1 seconds add up into 3-4 yards of consistent separation, more than enough for an accurate QB. Yet all Madden can do is make a guy move faster or slower. And we wonder why SPD seems messed up?

I'm glad somebody brought up Jerry Rice in this discussion. I can't tell you have many "faster" defensive backs I've seen Jerry outrun, yet you'd never think that should be the case going strictly by non-in-game numbers.

Playing Speed, Game Speed, Field Speed or whatever you want to call it is a whole different animal to running 40 yards in a straight line.

[hanzsomehanz]

I cannot load the 2nd page - what is the hold-up?

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[shttymcgee]

Quote: Originally Posted by xdfhnvhu

So then you will never go faster then when you first start running at full acc.

What? Not at all. How did this post get a like?

[DCEBB2001]

Quote: Originally Posted by shttymcgee

What? Not at all. How did this post get a like?

Not sure. If the acceleration is linear, you will continue to get faster (velocity) until you stop accelerating. Once you stop accelerating, that instant is your maximum velocity. From that point forward you begin to DECELERATE. At which your velocity begins to go down. Your acceleration, if linear as in this model, is greatest at the instant you begin to move (when velocity goes from zero, to non-zero). The velocity, however, will continue to rise. Look at the graph I provided on page 2 for an example. Note how acceleration is at its greatest value initially, but then continues to drop. The point at which it crosses the x-axis (0) is also the same point where velocity is at its highest. Get it?

Simple physics and calculus here folks.

[hanzsomehanz]

Can someone use spoilers for their image charts?

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