MADDEN 12 for 2013-14 (replace M25/M13) NEW Slider COLLECTION & Current Rosters

[kcsam]

I downloaded Brutforce and the Madden editor. I posted some information and questions at RAZRr1275's roster thread. Hopefully we can get this going and make some edits to the ratings to make this game play better.

[RAVENOUS]

Quote: Originally Posted by kcsam

Hey Trey. From what I've been reading, it sounds like a lot of the issues with gameplay have to do with the rosters and not necessarily the sliders. That said, is there a roster editor that can globally change roster ratings? Seems if we we're able to adjust a few positions globally, the game would play much more realistic.

Pretty much. The only thing he could really do with the sliders is tone up passing and down rushing a little bit, but everything really glaring is definitely a roster rating issue.

That being said, just making these slider settings will make a fun and competitive game for the person who doesn't want to spend a ton of time messing around with things before they play. Statistically it'll be a little off, but it'll be a challenge without being hair-pulling frustrating.

[trey31]

Quote: Originally Posted by RAVENOUS

Hi, I've been interested, but always daunted by the prospect of, tweaking '12 to get it to be a passable football video game for me. Saw a post you made in another thread back in September so I did some searching and found this thread here. Looks like you've done a significant amount of work with all the various sliders in the game, which is great! Part of what "daunted" me was piecing together all the information out there to get gameplay sliders, coaching schemes, and penalties to work in sync. I have a few questions though, because it always seems like no matter what I do there are more things that need to be fixed that irk me. 1. How are sim stats? 2. What about roster edits? 3. What have you found with custom gameplans? 4. How is your experience with DPP? I always felt it could get way out of hand, an example being that if a QB started 0-3 and got a three and out, he was far more likely to end the game with something horrific like a 15% completion rate and four picks, than something realistically bad, like a 40-50% completion rate with a pick or two. Let me know what you think.

Sorry to cut out so much. The post with all these comments in it got looong. I have noticed that sim stats seem to have exactly the same issues that 9/10/11/12 have always had. But, I simmed several CPU v CPU games while I was testing equal sliders, and noticed in game stats turned out much more realistic than the standard all-pro or all-madden sliders did. I never have gotten into roster edits for purposes of gameplay, but I'm open to the idea that interior lineman are giving up sacks to DTs because of their reduced pass blocking skills. I somewhat confirmed this by watching a CPU v CPU game where I moved DE's to DT and DT's to DE. Guess who got the most sacks... However the flip side of this is the Punters as Lineman testing. More on that in a second...

I do know that madden editor v1 lets me make mass edits to different attributes to specific positions, which can be applied globally, say to all RGs. If anyone come up with a method of like +5 PBF and +8 PBS to all G's and C's or something like that, I could easily edit my Madden 25 converted rosters to include those global edits.... I just wouldn't want to create a bunch of Clark Kents' (secret Supermen), so I'd prefer to have tested figures and preferably simmed results as well. If anyone is up for it, I'm more than willing to tinker with rosters.

Also I gave up on the franchise/coach settings... Its... Completely out of whack and each tweak that fixes 1 thing, just ends up breaking 2 others. At least it seams that way to me.

However, I updated the current 2014 coaches in my Madden 12 All 32 franchise file in the other thread. So at least the right guys are in the right places, if not the right schemes or whatever. Also changed some playbooks, like Chip Kelly's and whatnot.

Quote: Originally Posted by RAZRr1275

I just played a couple of games with these. They have potential but there are some problems 1) Way way too many sacks. You can't even do a PA play or have time for a screen to develop before you get nailed 2) Way too much inside pressure. 3) DTs and CB/S are leading teams in tackles 4) Superhuman jumping lbs. I do know exactly how to fix this stuff but I don't have time to do it myself. The information is here and the user above is right. It's a roster problem http://www.operationsports.com/forum...x-up-game.html Quote: interior offensive lineman need to have their pass block, pass block strength, and footwork ratings at 99

I don't want to argue with any OS veterans, but I tested Punters as lineman, and they held up to the pass rush on All-Pro default sliders fairly well... Honestly, this sounds stupid, but I moved a bunch of punters to RT/RG/C/LG/LT and played a game with default sliders. CPU gave up 3 sacks (I chose to play vanilla and not blitz) and I gave up 1 if I remember correctly. Or none? Either way it proved the point that I have thought was true for years, basically speed and throw power and strength are basically the only attributes that really matter in Madden games. At least with 5 punters as my o-line I was able to beat the CPU no-contest on All-Pro, anyhow. That says a lot. Also, Pass Block and Run Block no longer (at least in 12/13, I don't know about 25) mean anything during games. They're only used for simulation (not super sim in-game, but for simulating CPU team games each week). Only RBF/PBF/RBS/PBS affect in-game blocking. At least that's what I read in a dozen different posts anyway.

Like I said I don't want to start any pissing matches. I would absolutely love to hear specifics on any +/-5 or whatever attributes that I could globally edit, that should/could/will have a positive impact on Madden 12's gameplay.

Quote: Originally Posted by RAVENOUS

Hey, can't seem to dig up my thumb drive to load in current rosters, so I dusted off a franchise I started with last year's rosters. I took the Cardinals so I could build through the draft (and cheated by sorting by potential and snatching up the stars). Simmed through one season, so season two is the current season with fictional rookies. Was gonna sim through this season too but I made the playoffs at 11-5 so figured why not test your sliders right then and there. Absolute thriller against the Packers ensued. My Rookies: QB L. Doran (84 OVR, RGIII clone, edited him a bit to make him this way) RB K. Moore (83 OVR, converted WR, 5'11" 180lb burner) WR R. Henderson (82 OVR, 6'2" 211lb burner) TE L. Monroe (86 OVR) FS G. Taula (84 OVR) SS S. Dixon (86 OVR) Used your equal based+ sliders with the exception of turning my QB Acc down to 10, here's the Box Score: .... Thoughts (in no particular order): CPU sacks came from DT and CB, INTs came from LBs. DT was their leading tackler, would like to see LBs from both teams stand out more in tackles. My sacks all came from LBs, and I do run 3-4. On Groves' third sack he looked absolutely amazing blowing past the tackle, then leaping the back who tried to pick him up on his way straight to Rodgers. My INTs all came in the secondary. Grant had 3 broken tackles and 116 yards after contact (mostly on his 85 yd TD). Rodgers had 2 broken tackles (!) which both came on the same drive at the end of the first half, both on 3rd and 7-8ish, both against LBs to extend the play for a first down. I about tore my hair out. Lots of big plays all around. Kick returns were noticeably easier for me and I scored on the opening second half return. Henderson beat his man out of press single coverage twice for big TDs. Player controlled QBs fumble almost every time they're touched, this always drives me crazy too. I even manually edited my carrying rating up to 99 but I pretty much have to slide every time I run. Used your updated autosub setting for RBs from yesterday, but the CPU backup saw 1 carry vs starter's 15, and my backup was only on the field for a reception. Will try original setting now. Playing the "no-switch" rule, I saw my DBs be pretty unresponsive on some jump balls in the first half. After I started controlling them though, they lit up (even without switching to them later on). The CPU punter looked about as amazing as I've ever seen one be. My lone penalty of the game came on my first defensive play, an unnecessary roughness for a late hit out of bounds after Jordy Nelson caught a corner route on the sideline against my cover 2. He totally didn't look out of bounds, but I've never seen this penalty called in years, interesting to see what happens when you tweak things around! Was a fun game, will let you know how Conference Championship goes against the Falcons. EDIT: I though I used the updated (lower out/in) RB autosub settings, but I just checked them and they're at 88out 95in. Weird that they hardly subbed.

Sounds great! I'm glad to hear about your results! Also, I'm not sure what's up with the RB's. I was able to duplicate the issue of them leaving in the 3rd, however I couldn't get it to occur consistently. Either way lowering the in/out should work. It may need to come up to the 70s though if RBs aren't leaving after 4-6 carries early on in games. I intend to test this more. Will post back.

Quote: Originally Posted by RAVENOUS

Here's the box score for Conference Finals against Falcons: ...... Thoughts: Much less offensively explosive game. I ran the ball a ton because I got sacked three plays in a row the first quarter and feared their pass rush. I was also protecting a lead for the second half. Abraham (RE) got 2 sacks and I was definitely afraid of him (good results for 4-3 defense). There was however way too much pressure up the middle at times, and their other two sacks came from DTs. Their top three, and five of their top seven tacklers were safeties or defensive linemen. Turner and a tandem of rookie backup RBs crushed me for 7 (officially recorded) broken tackles on only 22 carries. Turner absolutely flattened two defenders on his 89 yard TD in the first quarter, and aside from being hard to tackle was incredibly shifty too. It seemed like no matter the RB, my first (and sometimes more) defender to the ball would always get shaken off, so stopping the run was a matter of how quickly I could get the second and third defender to the play (have seen this in Madden all the time on competitive slider settings). I missed a 57 yd FG (short), and Brown missed a pair of 50+ yd FGs in the first half (one bounced off the left upright, other even a little more wide left). Might need to turn up quarter length from 12 mins, Falcons only ran 45 plays to my 60-some. Then again, I milked the clock pretty hard in the 4th quarter. Ryan definitely looks like a worse QB than Rodgers, as I think we can all agree he should, but he was almost too off-target on many throws, and had a paltry 88 passing yards before he hit Douglas for a 69 yd TD with 2:21 left in the game. Saw a lot more involvement from backup RBs, probably because the ball was run a lot more. I think I did see both starters early in the 4th quarter, but towards the end of the game it was only backups RBs on the field. Seeing a lot of pancakes somehow, which I rarely have ever seen with any other settings. Will post SB results vs Texans next.

How organic did the RB's seem after increasing the carries? Were they substituting out often enough during the 1st through 3rd quarters? Also what were the in/out set at?

Quote: Originally Posted by RAVENOUS

Here's the Super Bowl box score: ....... Here's my overall team stats for the three playoff games: ...... Things that impressed me most: CPU punters were on point like I've never seen Pancakes registering, and overall fairly realistic stats for the player-controlled team 5 of my 9 sacks came from OLBs; 2 from MLBs, and 2 from D-line, which is pretty impressive Madden-wise for a 3-4 Fun, competitive games; very few plays that felt scripted/frustrating Things that need work: CPU passing too weak and rushing too stronk Run blocking too strong in the interior line (C/G up on my LBs in the second level far too often, I get passable tackle amounts with my MLBs because I control them) but pass blocking too weak CPU spread of tackles and sacks is bad, as is common for Madden Every FG attempted 50+ was missed, no FGs made 35+ but I don't think any 40-49 were attempted Super LB/DLs weren't too noticeable leaping up to swat passes, and never had an INT as a result of one; but I may have played to avoid it somewhat as I'm so used to seeing it. Starting RBs definitely disappear in the 4th quarter, it probably has to do with them automatically starting the quarter with 85 fatigue max or something less than 88 Overall had a fun morning of Madden, thanks to you! Hit me up if you want some help/collaboration taking these to the next level (roster edits/gameplans/etc).

Sounds great. Thanks for posting the stats and your thoughts. I've noticed, in my opinion anyway, that the Super LB still exists, but its occurrence is far less often than default. I'll work on the RB in/out and report back as well. I'm curious if this may be different for different backs. Also I've made 55+ FGs in practice with these, with some issues over 57. I used to hit 59 as almost automatic before tinkering. 9/10 at least as long as wind wasn't a factor. Kicking is totally up to each individual though, so if its an issue for you (or anybody else) it can easily be changed by a point or 2. Thanks for the feedback and stats and info/thoughts. I look forward to hearing more.

[trey31]

Quote: Originally Posted by kcsam

This is all very interesting information. I'm definitely intrigued by the thoughts of all of this. To me, it seems like so many of the players play the same. It's almost as if the sliders affect the players too much and the high-end guys aren't much different than the lower-tier guys. I'm a coach mode player, so as close as we can get to a sim environment for this game I am ALL FOR!

I am as well. Out of curiosity what did you mean by sliders affecting high-end guys? Like these slider sets make them less spectacular, or did you mean the default slider sets do? I personally have come to fear several DEs in 4-3 defenses, and OLBs in 3-4, by the 2nd half after a holding penalty on a 3rd & 18. Maybe its just me, but I block down TE's and FB's specifically to give me an extra half second on long downs, and I do it to the side of the line where that RE or LE is coming from too. If anything, I'd say I am much more "afraid" of the star players than I ever have been in a Madden game. Default sliders never made me afraid of anyone in particular. Even the premier CB's on default weren't even in my thought process during play selection. But they/some are now. Suggs, for instance, got me 4 times in one game AFTER I started blocking down TE's and FB's. You won't hurt my feelings, if you're seeing something different in coach mode I'd love to hear an example. Are extra low rated players getting higher sack numbers than the "stars?"

Quote: Originally Posted by RAZRr1275

If you're looking to get into the roster end check the thread in my sig. A team of guys and myself investigated the sort of thing when the game first dropped

I'm interested. I've used Madden Roster Editor V1 for about 75+ hours since August, mostly converting rosters from 25 to 12/13. I'm open to do global changes if someone can do some testing and let me know some moderate numbers/attributes to change for which players.

Quote: Originally Posted by RAZRr1275

I never finished the project. The most recent file is the one in the first post that has the teams listed for you to try out. And as for the last question you don't. It would be way too much work. If you try them out post impressions in my thread so that we don't hijack this

Hi-jack away. Also feel free to post in my roster thread [PS3] Hex Edited Madden 25 Roster for Madden 12 and 13 over there. There are several guys willing to test and work on roster files that check in regularly over there.

Quote: Originally Posted by kcsam

Hey Trey. From what I've been reading, it sounds like a lot of the issues with gameplay have to do with the rosters and not necessarily the sliders. That said, is there a roster editor that can globally change roster ratings? Seems if we we're able to adjust a few positions globally, the game would play much more realistic.

For sure. Let's figure out what I need to adjust globally, and I'll give it a go!

Quote: Originally Posted by kcsam

I downloaded Brutforce and the Madden editor. I posted some information and questions at RAZRr1275's roster thread. Hopefully we can get this going and make some edits to the ratings to make this game play better.

I'm willing to work on this using my converted rosters, and I'm pretty fluent in Madden Editor at this point. I really just need to know what to change and how much.

Quote: Originally Posted by RAVENOUS

Pretty much. The only thing he could really do with the sliders is tone up passing and down rushing a little bit, but everything really glaring is definitely a roster rating issue. That being said, just making these slider settings will make a fun and competitive game for the person who doesn't want to spend a ton of time messing around with things before they play. Statistically it'll be a little off, but it'll be a challenge without being hair-pulling frustrating.

Thanks for the props! Feel free to post more info/stats/thoughts. I enjoyed reading your detailed responses, I plan to test several things you brought up as well.

cheers to all!

[trey31]

I posted in the roster thread, so we'll see if others are interested and want to help test things

[RAZRr1275]

Oh you aren't starting a pissing match at all. To be honest I didn't test very much with lineman. Trojan Man handled that end of things so if you pm him he could probably give you a better answer. From what I remember (a while back and don't feel like digging so I'm not sure if this is accurate) we never tested changing only one of strength or footwork ratings. Always both at the same time so you could be right to be honest. The part where things got interesting was with the edits of tackles - he found that one side of the line always gave up the sacks to DEs and had to edit left tackles differently than right tackles to even things out a bit. My main contribution to the deal was the tiering of PRC and awareness to get targets/tackle stats/matchups to play out correctly. As for what edits to do specifically there's a post here http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2045752796 with information as to what we nailed down and what still needed to be tested.

[trey31]

Quote: Originally Posted by RAZRr1275

Oh you aren't starting a pissing match at all. To be honest I didn't test very much with lineman. Trojan Man handled that end of things so if you pm him he could probably give you a better answer. From what I remember (a while back and don't feel like digging so I'm not sure if this is accurate) we never tested changing only one of strength or footwork ratings. Always both at the same time so you could be right to be honest. The part where things got interesting was with the edits of tackles - he found that one side of the line always gave up the sacks to DEs and had to edit left tackles differently than right tackles to even things out a bit. My main contribution to the deal was the tiering of PRC and awareness to get targets/tackle stats/matchups to play out correctly. As for what edits to do specifically there's a post here http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2045752796 with information as to what we nailed down and what still needed to be tested.

21 pages is going to take me a minute or two to read all of. Before I do, is there anything as far as global edits that you guys all nailed down? Or is there anything that you think could be edited semi-globally, as in 90-99 OVR ILB +6 PRC, 80-89 OVR ILB +3 PRC, or something similar to that? I've gotten pretty efficient with Madden Editor, Bruteforce, and the editor's DB/CSV export files. I can whip stuff together pretty quick if I know exactly what needs changed.

[Mick-S]

I know this is completely off topic, but in the thread I started 200+ views and no replys.

Madden 12 Updates

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I have the game arriving soon and was wondering if the updates that were released are really needed as far as gameplay is concerned.
don't suppose the game will download these updates so is there another way to get them? , thanks

Have been following all the threads on improving the Madden12 gameplay ( a lot to get through ) as soon as I get the game will do some testing.