how do I stop the dime defense cheese?

[jfsolo]

Quote: Originally Posted by ODogg

Then those ppl aren't 100% str8. You are right, you need to play ppl who are sim (which I consider to be str8). You guys are also right that EA needs to address this. However, with that being said, even if/when this is fixed, football is always going to be a game which gives a head coach alot of options which means people will have a choice to play dumb. So it's not just a limitation of the game, it's a limitation of the coaches you guys are playing. Even with a game that is 100% correct, which we will no doubt ever have, people can abuse the system as long as we're given the option to do so. So that is why regardless of the issue you guys are having with playing other people, if it concerns any non-sim aspect of significance, you should be looking for better coaches to play against first, not a better game.

The thing about it is that a better game will PUNISH moronic coaching as opposed to rewarding it. I've played a lot of players who thought of themselves as 100% sim players, but the success of their game was still predicated on subtle abuses of the A.I. and the limitations of the in game animation sequences. This is not meant be a flame, but playing Madden is still more like playing "Pac-Man" then playing football. Its more about mastering the "patterens" of the game, rather than utillizing sound football principles. Madden isn't alone in this respect, most sports games are like this. Hopefully we will see less of this during the next gen game cycle.

[ODogg]

Quote: Originally Posted by jfsolo

The thing about it is that a better game will PUNISH moronic coaching as opposed to rewarding it. I've played a lot of players who thought of themselves as 100% sim players, but the success of their game was still predicated on subtle abuses of the A.I. and the limitations of the in game animation sequences. This is not meant be a flame, but playing Madden is still more like playing "Pac-Man" then playing football. Its more about mastering the "patterens" of the game, rather than utillizing sound football principles. Madden isn't alone in this respect, most sports games are like this. Hopefully we will see less of this during the next gen game cycle.

Yeah I agree, we've got a long ways to go across the board in sports games. Game developers need to ask themselves basic questions such as "in real life why would a team not run dime defense every down?" instead of asking themselves "how can we encourage ppl to not use dime so much because it's getting complaints from our users".

I guess my point was we are always going to have things ppl can abuse in the games because we're given choices. That's why things like Fair Play are never really going to absolve us of the personal responsibility to find opposition that at least attempts to play simulation style the best that they can.

[BigTigLSU]

Quote: Originally Posted by ODogg

Yeah I agree, we've got a long ways to go across the board in sports games. Game developers need to ask themselves basic questions such as "in real life why would a team not run dime defense every down?" instead of asking themselves "how can we encourage ppl to not use dime so much because it's getting complaints from our users". I guess my point was we are always going to have things ppl can abuse in the games because we're given choices. That's why things like Fair Play are never really going to absolve us of the personal responsibility to find opposition that at least attempts to play simulation style the best that they can.

I agree with you on all accounts but all that does is limit us as gamers on having people to play. The amount of true Sim might be 1 to 15 if not a larger spread compared to players who play to beat the CPU not to out coach the human opponent. Some players are limited to 3 plays and can dominate not because he is out coaching you with these plays but he uses the cpu limitation to beat you. And of course I know A.I. for all games are limited to certain parameters but they being the case some simple football logic should be the bases of the universal rules that govern gameplay. Goalline, fronts that have extra man in the box should do well against the run....the Base 4-3/3-4 defenses should handle the run moderately....Dimes and Nickels should have considerable problems stopping the run

With madden its game of reverse universe you cant run on a dime or nickel and cant stop the run on with a goal line Defense. If an opponent needs a first down on short yardage the percentage is favored for the offense on getting it. All based on the Run blocking logic that has been the same for years.

[crumpled_heap]

Does this problem exist in Madden 2006?

[Cardot]

Quote: Originally Posted by ODogg

You guys are also right that EA needs to address this. However, with that being said, even if/when this is fixed, football is always going to be a game which gives a head coach alot of options which means people will have a choice to play dumb. So it's not just a limitation of the game, it's a limitation of the coaches you guys are playing. Even with a game that is 100% correct, which we will no doubt ever have, people can abuse the system as long as we're given the option to do so.

Yes, there will probably always be holes to exploit, but EA should be able to do a much better job to limit it. One of my objections to ALL football games is that it seems that they just don't test the plays enough to validate their level of success. There are always a handful of plays on both sides of the ball that either never work or are practicaly money.

To me, the very core of a football game should be realistic balance of plays, and strategies to counter these plays. And I don't think it is a matter of appealing to the casual gamer. I am by no means a hard core sim player. Infact other than an ultimate cheese ball, I just can't see who could get lasting enjoyment out of playing in Dime defense,every play, or throwing flag routes all day, or contantly running outside or whatever the flaw is.

Playing with other straight players helps, but it still leaves an empty feeling. If I am playing someone and they have a 3rd and 25 situation, should I feel guilty about using a dime defense? I still really enjoy NCAA 2004. But because I don't like the cheese of the long ball, I basically never throw deep.....That isn't exactly realistic either.

If I could have my wish, I think I would prefer simplified playbooks where all the plays worked like they should. But I won't hold my breath on that happening.

[LIGHTNING]

The problem with the ease of stopping the run in Madden is that momentum, size, and strength do not matter when tackling the ball carrier. This has been a big problem since Madden 2001 and EA still has not fixed it yet and they probably won't fix it for the XBOX 360 version either. The tackling and tackling animations are very poor compared to NFL 2K5.

[JayBee74]

Quote: Originally Posted by crumpled_heap

Does this problem exist in Madden 2006?

I assumed crumpledHeap was playing Madden 2006.

[Vince]

It's very simple.

-either check down to the RB's
-If you go 5 wide with no backs or tight ends to pass protect, you're done. You won't be able to stop their moronic blitzing. If you see them spread the D-Line and bring down the dime corners closer to the LOS, it means they are blitzing.