Madden NFL 10 Patch #2 Details Coming Next Week

[johnkorean]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sauk

I never said your feelings were hurt, I could care less about your feelings, but Ian's were many times on here. I never said I didn't have the game, did I? I just said I didn't purchase the game. Still not a very good post by you, sorry.

Sorry, there's a general sort of internet bias phenomenon where people generally assume that the people they talk to are similar to themselves. Since I just now figured out you're just a kid, I apologize for being so harsh. As penance, I'm going to let you in on a little secret.

In the business world, you don't hurt adults' feelings. In general, parents teach their children not to be mean to others because you will "hurt their feelings." It's a load of **** once you reach a certain age. In reality, don't be mean to others because they will do everything they can to **** you in the ***.

Hence, when people ride Ian's *** because there's only 1 version of the game, and not the 1000 different versions different people want to see, sure, he takes it a little personally when 13 year old kids complaining about their gifts from mommy make ad hominem attacks when they have no clue what they're talking about. However, the end result is not "My feelings are hurt, so now I'll work extra hard!" The end result is "Well **** you kid, fix it yourself. I'm making money either way."

Understand that I'm trying to help you. Your generation's (and by generation I mean generally people born in the 90's) inability to solve problems is disheartening. It's really our fault: we've created a world where everything was done for you, so in a sense it's not fair to get mad at you for being helpless and clueless about how things get done. But that doesn't change the fact that, unless your methodologies change, you're not going to accomplish anything. Your tactics are counter-productive.

You want a better game? Don't bash the people trying to help you for their lack of football knowledge; share it with them. Be their expert. To paraphrase Jerry Maguire, "Help them help you." Don't alienate the only people in the world who can help you get what you want.

[HealyMonster]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

At this point (five years into next gen) should old Maddens, 2K5, and APF really be legitimate comparisons? I'd argue Maddens next gen ineptness has done more to add to the legend status of 2K5 than 2K5 ever did. It was a last gen game that's basically stood still for the past five years.

Here is the deal with Madden. It seems like evry year, its their first release next Gen, since next gen began.

I know it sounds ********, but the truth is, they are starting over every year.

06 was a wash because it was a launch game and was rushed.

07 then came out a few months later and still had the "we are new" excuses attached to it. I think they added pre game intros and some new animations.

08 they added weapons, and supposedly "refined" stuff but it really didnt move forward much. There was superstar mode, and some additions from last gen

09 there was "branching technology" online leagues that didnt work right, franchise mode additions and the general consensus was that "this dev team get it" take this madden as the starting point for something great.

10 now its "pro tak" as opposed to branching. They sold millions on online franchise whereas it is once again broken and a worthless feature without millions of hours and excel spreadsheets and accountants. A new presentation package which is not much/ not a realistic representation of a TV broadcast yet the general consensus is that "this is a starting point for something great". they release a patch that breaks presentation in some areas.

do you get the picture? Its like over and over and over, while 2k5 has just been good ole' trusty 2k5 for alot of people. This is why it has the cult following that it does.

[SoxFan01605]

Quote: Originally Posted by countryboy

I don't consider any of those issues gamekillers either, but that hasn't stopped a handful of people from proclaiming those issues to be on those message boards. Same thing here in the Madden forum,some people see various issues as "gamekillers" while others don't. No matter which game you look at, there are going to be faults that people can't look past. And there will be people who can play and enjoy the game despite its faults. Its how its always been and how it always will be, and Madden is no different.

That's exactly the point CB. You know as well as anyone how I feel about The Show, at least. I simply listed those issues as examples of the kind of things people gripe about for each game and to illustrate that it's all subjective.

Madden gets more attention for the same kind of glitches these other games have. Again, the audience is larger. The glitches or "broken" aspects of Madden are no better/worse than nearly every game out.

As for how well it represents the sport (as some have mentioned in reply), that's a separate issue altogether. Patches are to fix problems with the game and fine-tune where possible. They are NOT there to fix subjective concepts like "sim." I never made claims of Madden's greatness (here's the hook-I DON'T OWN THE GAME!), I simply addressed the misnomer that it is more reliant on patches than other games.

[countryboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by SoxFan01605

That's exactly the point CB. You know as well as anyone how I feel about The Show, at least. I simply listed those issues as examples of the kind of things people gripe about for each game and to illustrate that it's all subjective. Madden gets more attention for the same kind of glitches these other games have. Again, the audience is larger. The glitches or "broken" aspects of Madden are no better/worse than nearly every game out. As for how well it represents the sport (as some have mentioned in reply), that's a separate issue altogether. Patches are to fix problems with the game and fine-tune where possible. They are NOT there to fix subjective concepts like "sim." I never made claims of Madden's greatness (here's the hook-I DON'T OWN THE GAME!), I simply addressed the misnomer that it is more reliant on patches than other games.

my bad Sox...didn't mean for my post to imply that you were one of the ones that were deeming those issues as "gamekillers".

[Sauk]

Man you just continue to get it wrong lol

Dude another bad post by you, I maybe a kid at heart, but I am 33 years old which is probably older then you.

Nice try again, but seriously just another bad post by you

Quote: Originally Posted by johnkorean

Sorry, there's a general sort of internet bias phenomenon where people generally assume that the people they talk to are similar to themselves. Since I just now figured out you're just a kid, I apologize for being so harsh. As penance, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. In the business world, you don't hurt adults' feelings. In general, parents teach their children not to be mean to others because you will "hurt their feelings." It's a load of **** once you reach a certain age. In reality, don't be mean to others because they will do everything they can to **** you in the ***. Hence, when people ride Ian's *** because there's only 1 version of the game, and not the 1000 different versions different people want to see, sure, he takes it a little personally when 13 year old kids complaining about their gifts from mommy make ad hominem attacks when they have no clue what they're talking about. However, the end result is not "My feelings are hurt, so now I'll work extra hard!" The end result is "Well **** you kid, fix it yourself. I'm making money either way." Understand that I'm trying to help you. Your generation's (and by generation I mean generally people born in the 90's) inability to solve problems is disheartening. It's really our fault: we've created a world where everything was done for you, so in a sense it's not fair to get mad at you for being helpless and clueless about how things get done. But that doesn't change the fact that, unless your methodologies change, you're not going to accomplish anything. Your tactics are counter-productive. You want a better game? Don't bash the people trying to help you for their lack of football knowledge; share it with them. Be their expert. To paraphrase Jerry Maguire, "Help them help you." Don't alienate the only people in the world who can help you get what you want.

[SoxFan01605]

Quote: Originally Posted by countryboy

my bad Sox...didn't mean for my post to imply that you were one of the ones that were deeming those issues as "gamekillers".

lol...no, no...we're good.

I know you didn't, and I didn't take it that way. I was clarifying for those who may have gotten that from my post is all. I was simply supplementing.

[countryboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by SoxFan01605

lol...no, no...we're good. I know you didn't, and I didn't take it that way. I was clarifying for those who may have gotten that from my post is all. I was simply supplementing.

[johnkorean]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sauk

Man you just continue to get it wrong lol Dude another bad post by you, I maybe a kid at heart, but I am 33 years old which is probably older then you. Nice try again, but seriously just another bad post by you

Ok then, here's a post you'll appreciate:

I seriously misjudged you, and for that I apologize. Your daughter is adorable, and it looks like you're doing something with your life that you love. I'm jealous of that. As a law student, I'm 99% sure that I'm going to hate my job for the next 10-15 years. You can probably sense the bitterness. Still, it's no excuse for rude behavior, and I apologize.

In retrospect, it looks like I confused the intentions behind your post with other attitudes. In looking back, it looks like your point was simply a hope that Ian and his team would be motivated by a sense of pride in their work. You're an artist, so while you're surely motivated by money, it's also important to you that you can stand behind your work. I respect that.

Ultimately, I do disagree with you that shame is an effective tactic in getting what we want in this situation. One thing we have to keep in mind is that while we view the game from a player standpoint, they view the game from a programming standpoint. The two groups may have completely different expectations. No computer program in the history of mankind has been bug-free (note: possible exaggeration. I'm not a computer programming expert), and so from a programming standpoint, Madden may already represent a monumental success in that industry. I simply disagree that Ian and his team should feel ashamed for creating the greatest football simulation game just because it could be better. If I knew enough about computer programming and had ideas about how specifically they could implement some fixes, then maybe that would be a different story. But I know nothing about programming. I'm grateful that someone else is working their tails off so that I can enjoy some leisure time.

That, to me, is the biggest "crime" we have committed: a lack of perspective. It is a video game. We're getting uppity and accusing other human beings of being lazy because they're not enabling us to be lazy to the degree we desire. I hate analogies, but this is like having a family member (spouse, parent) make a sandwich for you and then criticizing the sandwich. I've always been taught "If you don't like it, make it yourself."

The response has been that EA has an exclusive license. But there is nothing stopping you from developing some code and giving it to EA. Arguably, this is a ridiculous proposition since most of us couldn't possibly code Madden by ourselves. But that's exactly my point: if we can't make it ourselves, maybe we should stop yelling at someone else to make it for us. If we don't have the equipment or talent to take a breathtaking picture that captures the intensity of a football game, maybe we shouldn't yell at the photographer who's doing it for us.

Again, though, I do apologize for the way I was treating you. That was not okay.