if madden is always better than ncaa, then we are in for a surprise:)

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

Now I don't know what Valdarez is talking about specifically because I don't have NCAA and I don't think I have ever tried a middle screen. There is a reason for that. I know Madden.

The CPU ran it against me, and it looked great. No clue how they managed to throw/catch the ball, but it was the first wow moment for me in an EA Football game in a long, long time. However, after playing and seeing the DLine/LBs jumping, I know I'd just be frustrated as hell trying to pull it off myself.

Quote: Originally Posted by Only1LT

You said that maybe he is trying something that works in another game and maybe that's why he is having trouble. That's probably the case. I have a great passing game in Madden, but not because Madden has a great passing game, but because I know what you can and can't do in the game.

I'm trying to throw off of people's locations, real physics, and their reaction times, and it just doesn't work in NCAA 2011, just like it didn't work in M10. Worst part is Locomotion is not enabled all of the time, which when you think about it is pretty ridiculous as it defeats the purpose of having it in the first place.

The biggest problem with the passing is the arc. It's just too low. The ball seems to be 7 feet off the ground or a moon ball with very little between. Perhaps I just suck at throwing (very possible, it's a small window to pass due to the speed in Madden compared to APF2K8), but even in 2K5 (faster than APF2K8 and NFL Fever I can throw without leaping LBs/DLineman knocking balls down 10+ yards off the play.

How do you touch throw a ball to a player 5 yards over the middle so the Dline doesn't knock it down and without throwing a moonball? Can you throw that consecutively and be successful? I can't. Yet in the other games I can throw it, avoid the DLineman, and hit the player in stride without throwing a major lob.

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by alexgamez122

Have you played NCAA??, Road to Glory and Dynasty mode are the same as last year aside from the new Phone call system. Not happy about either one, NCAA remains better at Dynasty, but Madden has other modes to keep me playing.

I didn't play Dynasty mode last year, though I had the game. I love the new recruiting system. IMHO it's the best improvement to the game hands down as I love strategizing over recruits. It's by far my favorite part of the game, and there's nothing in Madden that compares. Just as Madden's SuperStar mode doesn't compare to Road to Glory.

I only paid $40 for NCAA, and for the first time I"ll get my money's worth. If they would have fixed the ball arc, then I could have enjoyed it even more.

[cam780]

Quote: Originally Posted by alexgamez122

NCAA dynasty is better than Madden's Franchise, but not enough to make me overlook how much better Madden will be, with better gameplay and more modes

I had the same thought process for the past two years. Unfortunately, Madden hasn't lived up to the expectations that I had so I stopped having them. Not to say that I don't think it'll be good but just not good enough for me to forget Madden 2005 which is still the only version of this game that I played for 12 months straight and actually played every game too.

Quote: Originally Posted by MaddenMonster

Well there are factors I see that determine weather a game is better than another (by opinions) -If your the competitive gamer that wants to prove his skills on a HUGE online community. -If you like to deal with long term commitments, free agency, and a draft. -If you are a bigger fan of the NFL than college football - Most Likely You'll get Madden -If you are a casual gamer, and play offline more than online -If you love college football -If you feel Madden Off-Season and Management is TOO complicated -If you like more of a pick up and play game

I disagree. Recruiting takes a commitment. Madden and free agency doesn't.

Quote: Originally Posted by Kibby

NCAA 11 is a very fun game to play. Its much tighter than in the past years, plus the entire game simply runs smoother, but to those who say NCAA 11 is the best football game they've ever played need to take a step back and remember Madden 05, NFL 2k5 and All-Pro Football 2k8; those were the true greats.

I agree 150% about Madden 05. I was never a fan of 2K though because of its franchise flaws. I think I traded Kevin Faulk to the Bears for Urlacher and a 1st one year.

Quote: Originally Posted by alexgamez122

Have you played NCAA??, Road to Glory and Dynasty mode are the same as last year aside from the new Phone call system. Not happy about either one, NCAA remains better at Dynasty, but Madden has other modes to keep me playing.

That phone call system is one of the reasons why NCAA is great. Its a game within a game.

Personally, I'm in the camp that I'm sort of softening on Madden because of NCAA. I may actually pick it up but its going to depend on if the 3-4 is actually a viable defense this year.

[K_GUN]

Quote: Originally Posted by Valdarez

The biggest problem with the passing is the arc. It's just too low. The ball seems to be 7 feet off the ground or a moon ball with very little between. Perhaps I just suck at throwing (very possible, it's a small window to pass due to the speed in Madden compared to APF2K8), but even in 2K5 (faster than APF2K8 and NFL Fever I can throw without leaping LBs/DLineman knocking balls down 10+ yards off the play. How do you touch throw a ball to a player 5 yards over the middle so the Dline doesn't knock it down and without throwing a moonball? Can you throw that consecutively and be successful? I can't. Yet in the other games I can throw it, avoid the DLineman, and hit the player in stride without throwing a major lob.

FOR ME..this is the only *big* thing that i wish/hope madden 11 + fixes. The ball arc is what made the passsing game in 2k5 so much fun. It was tuned perfectly to the buttons..tap it...nice lob between the corner/safety....as well as the MLB/FS. In madden I just can't get a feel for a lob pass.

when i played the NCAA demo last month i felt the passing game was *closer* to 2k5 than any next-gen madden game has been.

my .02$

[adembroski]

It's not the ball arc. Sure, there should be more realism to the way the ball moves in the air (I think this has a bigger impact on the kicking game and fly routes than crossing routes, where the ball should almost be coming straight down at the end), but on most passes making it perfect would not fix the problem.

The problem is that defenders are way too quick to react and react too precisely. The second point is the more important... most attempted swats by defensive linemen and linebackers on passes going over their heads, even when it's in reach, are missed. The CPU defenders in NCAA almost never miss. If it's in reach, they get there. How many times on NFL films have you seen a ball in the air pass by 3 or 4 lunging hands that just don't quite get there. It just isn't that easy to knock down a ball traveling 45-55 miles per hour that's a foot or so above you, even if you react quickly enough.

[Valdarez]

Quote: Originally Posted by adembroski

It's not the ball arc. Sure, there should be more realism to the way the ball moves in the air (I think this has a bigger impact on the kicking game and fly routes than crossing routes, where the ball should almost be coming straight down at the end), but on most passes making it perfect would not fix the problem. The problem is that defenders are way too quick to react and react too precisely. The second point is the more important... most attempted swats by defensive linemen and linebackers on passes going over their heads, even when it's in reach, are missed. The CPU defenders in NCAA almost never miss. If it's in reach, they get there. How many times on NFL films have you seen a ball in the air pass by 3 or 4 lunging hands that just don't quite get there. It just isn't that easy to knock down a ball traveling 45-55 miles per hour that's a foot or so above you, even if you react quickly enough.

Sounds like you're seeing the swatted balls as well by the DLine/LBs. Do this Adem, go play a game of NCAA, and do a drag route with a WR. When the player is over the middle throw the ball. Try to do an average throw. Not a burner, and not a lob. Watch what happens.

Test it out, and then see if you see what I see (will record this if necessary):

Spoiler

Because the route is so short, the QB will actually throw the ball down. There will be no height what-so-ever on the ball. The ball will leave the QB's hand with a downward angle towards the receiving players mid-section.

[blklightning]

is there a normal pass in these next gen games? i remember having three option on the ps2. but it seems to me that it's either a bullet or a lob on next gen. maybe i'm missing it.

[Only1LT]

Quote: Originally Posted by adembroski

It's not the ball arc. Sure, there should be more realism to the way the ball moves in the air (I think this has a bigger impact on the kicking game and fly routes than crossing routes, where the ball should almost be coming straight down at the end), but on most passes making it perfect would not fix the problem. The problem is that defenders are way too quick to react and react too precisely. The second point is the more important... most attempted swats by defensive linemen and linebackers on passes going over their heads, even when it's in reach, are missed. The CPU defenders in NCAA almost never miss. If it's in reach, they get there. How many times on NFL films have you seen a ball in the air pass by 3 or 4 lunging hands that just don't quite get there. It just isn't that easy to knock down a ball traveling 45-55 miles per hour that's a foot or so above you, even if you react quickly enough.

You're half right. It's the reaction of the defender that is the problem, but it ALSO IS the ball arc, among a few other things, namely passes being tethered to the receiver.

Reason why I say it is the ball arc as well is because in real life it is entirely possible to throw a ball that has a lot of pace, but still has an arc. In fact the majority of "frozen ropes" are not line drives as you might think but they have arc to them. In Madden, the fact that you really can only choose from a literal line drive or a punt is a big problem and what aides the defenders in reacting more than they would be able to in real life. If you have to choose between a line drive that can be swatted easily or a punt that gives the entire defense a chance to get in on the play, then how can the defense not help but get to way more balls than what is the real life norm?

Furthermore, the tethering of passes to the receiver exacerbates the problem, because even with "Precision Passing", and I put that in quotes for a reason, yes you can throw passes to the right, left, high, low, of a receiver, but only so far. Doesn't matter how long you hold the stick in a given direction, it will almost always result in a pass that is catchable, because the pass is first and foremost tied to the receiver. Very few over throws. Very few balls hit the dirt. Just about every pass is either caught, dropped, swatted or intercepted.

Passes defensed are astronomical in Madden. Always have been. Yes, that's because of the defensive reaction as you mention, but a big part of that is also the arc of passes giving the defense all day to get back to make a play, or lack of arc making passes an easy swat, or the receiver tethering which gives the defense more chances to get in on plays because you can't throw the ball far enough ahead of a receiver most of the time, so that the defender can't make a play on it.

It's a combination of several things that make Madden's passing game less than.