My take on the Player Progression "Issue"

[Dwaresacksqb]

Quote: Originally Posted by jlukes

In 2005, Shaun Alexander had 1,880 yards and 27 TDs. The following year, he had 896 yards and 7 TDs. So yes, players DO regress after career years. Especially older RBs.

Ok but Madden still recognized his career year did they not? All that we want is atleast a little reward for doing the same thing in OUR game of madden. It probably felt so good to get those numbers and win the MVP with benson. But madden had to crash his party by actually lowering his stats. Madden has WAY to many problems to NOT be properly awarding people for their performance in THEIR GAME!

If you want to keep it true to how you feel a player should perform? Then u could do that. Just don't put up crazy numbers with what u would call average players. You could have it your way and we could have it our way without pissing people off and making them feel like their season they just had was inadequate and meaningless.

[RogueHominid]

With regard to the Benson issue, there are lots of factors to take into account, as others have said.

That is certainly an amazing performance, but progression in terms of physical attributes is not warranted on the basis of statistics. Backs at his age don't get faster, they don't get quicker, they don't often get stronger, though they can. Rather, they degenerate either more or less quickly than their peers at that age.

I'd say that with a great statistical year your best case scenario is an even rating or a small drop, especially if he got a lot of touches. I'd think speed would decline a point or two, perhaps agility as well and acceleration just a bit. Strength probably could remain the same, as well as the other ballcarrier attributes such as moves and blocking and hands.

I really think players should only get boosts in raw physical attributes very early in their careers. Perhaps young guys get stronger from NFL nutrition and lifting programs, but I'd be surprised if many guys actually gained speed and agility and acceleration in the 7th year of their careers, unless of course they dropped a lot of weight.

Better I think is an increase in awareness and the position-specific ratings, coupled with a higher chance of maintaining peak performance for a longer-than-average period of time.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dwaresacksqb

But madden had to crash his party by actually lowering his stats. Madden has WAY to many problems to NOT be properly awarding people for their performance in THEIR GAME!

Because older players getting worse is a problem with the game?

If franchise is supposed to be simulating the growth and decline of NFL players? Why would an older HB get better?

Stay the same/decline slowly? Possibly. Ray Lewis is still doing his thing, but I wouldn't say he's getting BETTER. If anything, he's slowing down physically, but his experience and other "intangibles" allow him to still be very productive as well as the fact he's declining from a high point of ability, so it will likely take longer before he's unproductive.

That's where the problem in Madden's progression is, imo, "intangibles"/techniques don't overcome physical declines (or raise even if physical abilities drop because things don't rise and fall independently). Not that there's no "reward the user" gains for players.

[steamboat]

What if I said that LT's big year, Shaun Alexanders big year CONTRIBUTED to their decline the subsequent year. They both carried the ball more then usual, expended more energy per carry, and thus would contribute to physical "ratings" decline. That if they had carried the ball 100 less times in their "big year" they would have lasted longer as "top flight" running backs. Why do you think nearly everyone is going to two or more running backs now? Its not because those two are always equal in value. If you run for 2000 yards with Cedric Benson, you ran for 2000 yards with his ratings. To get an increase in ratings at age 30 because of the production of the previous year would just then cause you to run for 2200 yards the next year. I agree with others that there should be a value rating such as production, that is used as well as age to come up with contract demands and trade offers. However, even this has some potential problems because of how the rating system works in Madden. You run for 2000 yards with Cedric Benson, then the next year trade him for a guy who ran for 800 yards, but is better rated then Benson. You then run for 2500 yards with the new guy, rinse and repeat. I've always stated that the biggest problem with madden, and with any non text based game is that the ratings are concrete and seen with no objectivity. I'd much prefer to see a rating system similar to say Out of the Park baseball with scouting turned on then the current system. That way, you have this guy he's just 60 overall, but you gotta start him cause people are injured, and then wow..he just ate people alive and jumped to 87. Was he ever really 60? No, your scouts just did not see his true stats and after repetition and production analysis his rating got closer (albeit probably artificially high) to his actual ratings. The way Madden is now does not truly allow for a Miles Austin or Tony Romo. Few had them pegged as A potential players coming in, but they proved the scouts wrong. A true scouting system is the cure for what ails you, not a statistical based progression that would cause numerous game-killing pitfalls.

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by Dwaresacksqb

Ok but Madden still recognized his career year did they not? All that we want is atleast a little reward for doing the same thing in OUR game of madden.

I would rather have things be realistic instead of arcade.

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by steamboat

The way Madden is now does not truly allow for a Miles Austin or Tony Romo. Few had them pegged as A potential players coming in, but they proved the scouts wrong.

Madden does allow for this in the current system. They are the later round draft picks with high potential. That's your Romo. I would like to see this become even more realistic by hiding the players true potential and go by the GM's, Scouts and Coaches best guess on what it is for the player. That best guess would be more or less accurate depending on how good your evaluators are and some random luck. So I'm with you on the scouting reports thing.

Quote: Originally Posted by steamboat

A true scouting system is the cure for what ails you, not a statistical based progression that would cause numerous game-killing pitfalls.

YES, enhance the current system to get it even closer to how things work in real life, within reason. Statistical based progression is great in an arcade system. And people are not wrong for wanted arcade. I personally want realism. Stats based progression is horribly bad for realism. I'm right there with ya.