Madden 13 Video Community Day Roundtable Sim Standard vs Tourney style

[Big FN Deal]

Quote: Originally Posted by rgiles36

I don't believe we felt a need to say or do anything. We were simply approached by the Gibs & Farls tandem to speak to the perceived differences between tourney gamers and sim gamers. We did segway into developer work ethic and effort, but that wasn't intended to be the focus of the discussion.

I didn't mean anything by that Rgiles, just another way of me saying you guys are just freely speaking your minds and not trying to convince anyone of anything.

On a side note, I can't believe you let them get away with somehow not adding the live ticker from NCAA 13 into Madden 13. And you call yourself a presentation guy. lol j/k

[speedy9386]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

Here's hoping they don't use the Activision-Blizzard definition of "soon". It is the right attitude. But, just like in the sport, it's the execution we need to see. I hope you're right and that your view is the one that comes to pass. I really do, because I want a great game like everyone here. Just going to wait before getting more bullish, so to speak, on the future beyond M13.

Or god forbid the natural motion definition for soon. (My backbreaker heads know what I'm talking about)

[Purple28Pedestrian]

Cheese/Tourney ball is mostly achieved due to the gameplay limitations.

"sim" players confine themselves to a certain way of playing to mimic real life NFL football.

"cheese and tourney" players confine themselves to the game parameters.

there are still certain things such as play calling and hot routing and blitz "schemes" that can be considered cheese. But things that are done between the whistles is at the fault of the game development, not the player.

I am a "sim" style player, but i empathize with those that cheese or whatever you want to call it. I remember being younger and enjoying the win at all costs. I feel though that everyone could benefit from more realistic gameplay.

I don't believe that cheesers look to zig zag, or rocket catch...they just enjoy scoring and winning. if the game disallowed unrealistic gameplay then the "cheesers" would simply find their high or enjoyment the same way, by winning/scoring [albeit in a "sim" way]

I find madden fun because I enjoy nerfing my play style to be sim, I don't care that I'm not zig zagging to score. I prefer my 8 yard run that was jukes and stiff arms to my 80 yard TD run that was zig zagged. That doesn't make me better or worse than other players, but it means I don't enjoy online due to the fact that I can't have someone emulate my "fun".


I guess I could summarize with this: In my opinion, those that exploit the game's short comings are not TRYING to exploit those holes, they are simply trying to score and win. If the game forced more realistic parameters i don't think it would reduce the fun factor for either set of gamers. It would just change the way both sets of player types approach the game. Everyone wants a realistic football game, just some are willing to allow their gameplay to have less realism than others.

[NotSureIfSerious]

Quote: Originally Posted by Purple28Pedestrian

Cheese/Tourney ball is mostly achieved due to the gameplay limitations. "sim" players confine themselves to a certain way of playing to mimic real life NFL football. "cheese and tourney" players confine themselves to the game parameters. there are still certain things such as play calling and hot routing and blitz "schemes" that can be considered cheese. But things that are done between the whistles is at the fault of the game development, not the player. I am a "sim" style player, but i empathize with those that cheese or whatever you want to call it. I remember being younger and enjoying the win at all costs. I feel though that everyone could benefit from more realistic gameplay. I don't believe that cheesers look to zig zag, or rocket catch...they just enjoy scoring and winning. if the game disallowed unrealistic gameplay then the "cheesers" would simply find their high or enjoyment the same way, by winning/scoring [albeit in a "sim" way] I find madden fun because I enjoy nerfing my play style to be sim, I don't care that I'm not zig zagging to score. I prefer my 8 yard run that was jukes and stiff arms to my 80 yard TD run that was zig zagged. That doesn't make me better or worse than other players, but it means I don't enjoy online due to the fact that I can't have someone emulate my "fun". I guess I could summarize with this: In my opinion, those that exploit the game's short comings are not TRYING to exploit those holes, they are simply trying to score and win. If the game forced more realistic parameters i don't think it would reduce the fun factor for either set of gamers. It would just change the way both sets of player types approach the game. Everyone wants a realistic football game, just some are willing to allow their gameplay to have less realism than others.

I agree with this line of thinking (although i would disagree that tourney players dont look for glitches) and I wish it would have been made in the video. The difference in players is afforded because they have such gaping differences between the game and reality. If that was closer, the cheeser would not exist.

If EA wants to solve the disconnect, they should not worry about stepping on toes, but make a realistic football game at its core and everything else will fall in line.

[SteelerSpartan]

Well they have already admitted that they have changed some real life rules(HOF Waiting Period) because of a Perceived "Fun" Factor

IMO it would be naive to believe they haven't done the same in areas of gameplay

[shaunlmason]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

How hard people work at their job creating Madden, how well the community interacts or where Madden is headed is great to hear but is beside the point by now. Some of us are just ready to see the game be as good a representation of NFL football that other games like The Show, FIFA, NHL and NBA2k are for their respective sports. I don't begrudge any EAGCs or CE attendees personally for whatever they feel the need to say or do though, do you. However, there is nothing that's going to prove that EA/Tiburon is making Madden, that game, until they have actually made that game. That said, enjoyed the video, propers to all the guys for a job well done because I personally can't stand being on camera, unlike SGibs that seems like a "hotdog" that loves the bright lights. lol. I meant that in a good way Sgibs, that you are not camera shy, not that you crave attention or something. I want to add that after giving some thought to what User control or tactics should be allowed or not in the game, I think the game should not allow a User to manually do things that the AI can not stop, period, not even in HUM v HUM games. The AI in Madden is not a free thinking entity, so it has to be programmed with certain predetermined parameters, so Users, should have to be beholden to those same parameters. Until Madden can expand those parameters for the AI, by representing more fundamental football aspects with inherent risk/reward, the game should at least have some factory setting/option, that limits User control within those parameters as well. I am not talking about "Fair Play" where Users are restricted from going for 4th downs but a setting that places presnap restrictions on User control. If I had to simplify it, I would say the setting restrict most presnap offensive/defensive adjustments, besides audibling to a completely different play, slide protections and defensive disguising. Let any defensive shifts be tied into the AI according to how the offense is aligned on the field. Finally NO manually moving any offensive or defensive players presnap, even when User controlled. I think a setting like this would level the playing field for the AI and consequently for HUM v HUM games as well. I understand that his leaves offenses and defenses subjective to whatever "holes" there are in the stock plays and the AI's ability to perform those plays but at least that narrows the issues down versus what we have now with all the freestyle ad lib available.

There isn't a need for any of those restrictions if you play with good people.

[Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by SteelerSpartan

Well they have already admitted that they have changed some real life rules(HOF Waiting Period) because of a Perceived "Fun" Factor IMO it would be naive to believe they haven't done the same in areas of gameplay

As well they should, EA Tiburon is ultimately in the business of making video games that are foremost fun.

I enjoy any steps that are taken to make the game more realistic - for example, I think that a cool and fun game mechanic could be added with protection calls at the line of scrimmage, and I also am excited to see if they can expand Kinect voice recognition not only to in-the-huddle playcalling but also definition of one's own offensive system verbiage so that one could call plays without looking at a playbook if one were so inclined, as well as protections, audibles, and hot routes - but at the end of the day, none of us on here are real football players and we would probably all suck at the game if it was a 100% true simulation, lol.

[jpdavis82]

I'm just glad to hear that they weren't able to zig zag run at community day after trying to intentionally in the latest build of the game and also that they saw less ice skating than ever before.