Buddy Ryan's Goaline Defense

[KBLover]

Quote:

I'm asking about a professional coaching strategy's decisions and how it relates to Madden. Many people believe there is some sort of unwritten code in how you are supposed to play. - no, no huddling - no quick snapping - no user catching - etc How does Buddy Ryans decision to literally cheat the game make people feel about their own Madden game?

It doesn't change what I feel because to me the issues with Madden go beyond "unwritten rules".

Plus, real life doesn't have game code that is fallible/incorrect and doesn't represent/re-create the behavior of players on the field. There's no quirks/tricks/whatever-you-want-to-call-it's relating to input reading/button press timing and defeating "psychic" knowledge in real life. So, it depends on why the "unwritten rules" exist. Are they there to try to overcome a deficiency in the game code and football "intelligence" in the game?

[sgibs7]

Quote: Originally Posted by Big FN Deal

You provoked me to look more into this stuff and it seems that antics like you are referring to are covered under in the NFL and NCAA rule book under the palpably unfair act rule. [Rule 12-3-2:The defense shall not commit successive or continued fouls to prevent a score. Penalty: For continuous fouls to prevent a score: If the violation is repeated after a warning, the score involved is awarded to the offensive team. (NCAA) Rule 9-2-3 Unfair Acts The following are unfair acts: a. A team refuses to play within two minutes after ordered to do so by the referee. b. A team repeatedly commits fouls for which penalties can be enforced only by halving the distance to its goal line. c. An obviously unfair act not specifically covered by the rules occurs during the game (A.R. 4-2-1-II). PENALTY—The referee may take any action he considers equitable, including assessing a penalty, awarding a score, or suspending or forfeiting the game.] So the Giants could not have kept doing it without a penalty, the same thing should apply for this type of stuff in Madden. However since we don't have actual officials, gamers should be kicked out of leagues and banned from online ranked for this conduct.

So, I can do it once?

That's fine by me then.

One time to get the win.

What does the rulebook say about No huddling?

[sgibs7]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

It doesn't change what I feel because to me the issues with Madden go beyond "unwritten rules". Plus, real life doesn't have game code that is fallible/incorrect and doesn't represent/re-create the behavior of players on the field. There's no quirks/tricks/whatever-you-want-to-call-it's relating to input reading/button press timing and defeating "psychic" knowledge in real life. So, it depends on why the "unwritten rules" exist. Are they there to try to overcome a deficiency in the game code and football "intelligence" in the game?

I respect that totally.

Buddy Ryan was trying to win at all costs. He went as far as deliberating breaking the rules of the game.

So, if no huddle is effective in the game then why shouldn't you use it.

Is no huddle overly effective in the game or is it a product of A. lack of features and options B. Poor Implementation C. Skill Level or D. All of the Above.

[baller7345]

Quote: Originally Posted by sgibs7

I respect that totally. Buddy Ryan was trying to win at all costs. He went as far as deliberating breaking the rules of the game. So, if no huddle is effective in the game then why shouldn't you use it. Is no huddle overly effective in the game or is it a product of A. lack of features and options B. Poor Implementation C. Skill Level or D. All of the Above.

No huddling is perfectly fine when you don't abuse audible boosting which makes the offensive players rush to the line much faster than normal. This creates moments when the defensive player is caught in situations that are completely beyond his control because there is no way to speed up the defensive players when it comes to returning them to their correct alignment.

I'm probably in the minority of the sim crowd here but if you want to run a sugar huddle all game or even add in some fast paced no huddle from time to time then go ahead. However if you are using flaws/glitches in the game to make the no huddle more effective than it normally would then you aren't using the no huddle in a sim manner.

Play calling is a whole other issue that comes up with the no huddle that I won't even begin to get into but as long as it has roots in real football I don't mind a shallow playcall sheet from the other player. Its when your offense and defense is more based on the game of Madden than real football that I begin to cringe.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Quote: Originally Posted by 55

The Giants pulled a form of this cheap tactic in the Super Bowl against the Pats a couple of years ago, albeit from further away but with the same goal in mind: take time off the clock and only give them one legit chance.

That is a false accusation, sir.

http://www.slate.com/articles/sports...ail_mary_.html

The 12th man in the Giants situation was Justin Tuck, who didn't even have his helmet on and was sprinting for the sidelines. He didn't participate in the play at all.

[sgibs7]

Quote: Originally Posted by IlluminatusUIUC

That is a false accusation, sir. http://www.slate.com/articles/sports...ail_mary_.html The 12th man in the Giants situation was Justin Tuck, who didn't even have his helmet on and was sprinting for the sidelines. He didn't participate in the play at all.

I'm still upset about the loss

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by sgibs7

So, if no huddle is effective in the game then why shouldn't you use it. Is no huddle overly effective in the game or is it a product of A. lack of features and options B. Poor Implementation C. Skill Level or D. All of the Above.

What I am trying to say is not "keep unwritten rules" its that Madden can't be directly compared to real life because Madden isn't even close to that accurate in representing the game. So what works in real life doesn't necessarily mean "all bets should be off" when regarding Madden.

As far as no-huddle, it's probably some percentage of the above. So I would likely say D, as, objectively, all three of those are at work. However, I don't concern myself with "C" because, again to me, the issue with Madden itself has nothing to do with whatever skill level of the user (no matter how good you are, LBs are not using gap principles, for example, or you can't stop the other OL from psychic play other than screwy, stuff like putting a DL on contain in a non-contain type play or having to "pick a guy over there for the CPU players to perform the blitz right", which is...just...I don't know what...)

The one thing I notice about no-huddle is that the players don't even man-up on whoever they were before. For example, other team ran 3-WR set, completes a pass, enters no-huddle. The DBs don't even adjust their coverage/man-up by the formation (the DB will try to man on someone from across the formation, etc), and I have to "re-audible" to man coverage to make them align their coverage correctly.

Stuff like that has to be out of the game. Not to mention the fatigue aspects, the fact every QB can run no-huddle with the same ability (ye olde 24 AWR rookie can run a Peyton Manning style offense without issue), and probably more - that's just off the top of my head.

That's why I think no-huddle is overdone in Madden.

[sgibs7]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

What I am trying to say is not "keep unwritten rules" its that Madden can't be directly compared to real life because Madden isn't even close to that accurate in representing the game. So what works in real life doesn't necessarily mean "all bets should be off" when regarding Madden. As far as no-huddle, it's probably some percentage of the above. So I would likely say D, as, objectively, all three of those are at work. However, I don't concern myself with "C" because, again to me, the issue with Madden itself has nothing to do with whatever skill level of the user (no matter how good you are, LBs are not using gap principles, for example) The one thing I notice about no-huddle is that the players don't even man-up on whoever they were before. For example, other team ran 3-WR set, completes a pass, enters no-huddle. The DBs don't even adjust their coverage/man-up by the formation (the DB will try to man on someone from across the formation, etc), and I have to "re-audible" to man coverage to make them align their coverage correctly. Stuff like that has to be out of the game. Not to mention the fatigue aspects, the fact every QB can run no-huddle with the same ability (ye olde 24 AWR rookie can run a Peyton Manning style offense without issue), and probably more - that's just off the top of my head. That's why I think no-huddle is overdone in Madden.

madden will never be real life because its a game. thats a double edge sword though because while thinking that way will allow more leeway for mistakes and flaws it also prevents progressive growth of the title. I guess there needs to be a middle ground.

i cant say I have ever come across what you are referring to with the alignment issues. I know that there are a some formations where issues still happen (espicially if you man align)

would man align twice fix that problem for you? I feel like it will reset things and you wouldn't lose more then 1 second of time for adjustments.

or is that the point. you dont want to have to man align twice...the game should just do it? (but if the resolution is to man align twice...why wouldnt you just man align twice and just resolve the issue?)

I'm officially in a vortex and I cant get out