Whats up with the Stats

[nomo17k]

spit_bubble is right, the game would benefit from more streamlined info access within the gameplay. Right now it's scattered around and is quite messy.

Stats is definitely one area the Show can and should improve significantly. If one major area that SCEA is thinking of improving for '12 is the franchise mode, it probably is also a good time to redesign the stats handling in the game. I don't think the current scheme of keeping track of a small number of split stats (vs LHP/RHP, w RISP, home/away, last months, etc.) will get the game too far in future... Something we could look forward to.

[Juiceman612]

Quote: Originally Posted by ruskoz

Hate is such a strong word! The select button gives you minimal stats at best! What about strength and weakness against certain pitches. I have actually heard on occasion one of the announcers make references to the scout reports and how I must of seen it because of the way I was pitching to the hitter. I ask want scouting report?? How about stats about situations...bases loaded 2 outs, stuff like that. Life time vs pitcher or pitcher vs batter, etc, etc. Baseball match ups is about stats vs stats not average vs era and power only. The stats system is way closer to arcade at best. The show was advertised as a baseball simulation. humm Dont get me wrong, I love the game play...I like to play the stats not just go by average vs era.

I get what you're saying here. The stats you're explaining here are useless though if the AI logic is not coded to deal with each of those situations realistically. It seems a lot of those stats would be useless if they don't play out like the real life stats. I don't know. To me, the stats would be useless only because I don't believe this game would handle something like how a batter hits .285 with 2 outs and RISP. I think going beyond splits like LHP vs. RHP would be really hard to program or at least a totally massive database of what if's that would have to be coded. If it's possible, that's awesome. But I can't imagine the game plays out quite so realistically in terms of percentages. Therefore, that might be why those stats are not so detailed in The Show.

[nomo17k]

Quote: Originally Posted by Juiceman612

I get what you're saying here. The stats you're explaining here are useless though if the AI logic is not coded to deal with each of those situations realistically.

I think most split stats aren't really useful/meaningful, even the ones frequently quoted within TV broadcast and such... Something like stats with RISP, quite a few people have tried to see if there is any intrinsic ability differences among players, but haven't been able to convincingly show such thing really exists (i.e., the "clutch" ability...).

The variations seen in many splits stats could be explained purely by random fluctuations (due to small sample, etc.), so we are just looking at what happened in the past, and not necessarily as a predictor of future performance. So AI doesn't need to deal with it in those cases.

[Bobhead]

Even if such AI mechanisms DON'T exist, it would still be nice to compare. I know I tend to press at the plate way more with RISP, and it would be nice to see how much that is affecting my output; I also know I am not the only one with these problems or desires. It would also be nice to get monthly splits to see if I've improved/regressed, and other things. The "AI" factor isn't really a legitimate argument because at the end of the day just about any of the omitted stats would still be useful for the human-controlled team(s) of any given user.

[Juiceman612]

Quote: Originally Posted by nomo17k

I think most split stats aren't really useful/meaningful, even the ones frequently quoted within TV broadcast and such... Something like stats with RISP, quite a few people have tried to see if there is any intrinsic ability differences among players, but haven't been able to convincingly show such thing really exists (i.e., the "clutch" ability...). The variations seen in many splits stats could be explained purely by random fluctuations (due to small sample, etc.), so we are just looking at what happened in the past, and not necessarily as a predictor of future performance. So AI doesn't need to deal with it in those cases.

I agree with everything you said there, however my point was specifically not trying to debate what stats are relevant to useful managerial analysis. I am saying that if specific situations are not coded in the game, then you're only kidding yourself when you're trying to analyze a situation too deeply with stats - and make managerial decisions based off them. I would think you could easily work out coding for hit rate of a RH pitcher vs. RH batter given player ratings of the pitcher and batter in the game, and they probably do that with the AI, but trying to code some kind of predictive hit rate for a certain batter with RISP and 2 outs or what have you vs. a certain pitcher who does this or that with RISP and 2 outs, that's just doubtfully (IMO) taken into account by the AI, so why bother with the stat? (regardless of if the stat is a useful predictor of performance - that's a separate debate)

[Juiceman612]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bobhead

Even if such AI mechanisms DON'T exist, it would still be nice to compare. I know I tend to press at the plate way more with RISP, and it would be nice to see how much that is affecting my output; I also know I am not the only one with these problems or desires. It would also be nice to get monthly splits to see if I've improved/regressed, and other things. The "AI" factor isn't really a legitimate argument because at the end of the day just about any of the omitted stats would still be useful for the human-controlled team(s) of any given user.

I totally agree with that. But I think the OP was talking about scouting a team, not judging his own 'user' performance. You're right. It would be nice to be able to see more user stats and that definitely would be useful.

[nomo17k]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bobhead

Even if such AI mechanisms DON'T exist, it would still be nice to compare. I know I tend to press at the plate way more with RISP, and it would be nice to see how much that is affecting my output; I also know I am not the only one with these problems or desires. It would also be nice to get monthly splits to see if I've improved/regressed, and other things. The "AI" factor isn't really a legitimate argument because at the end of the day just about any of the omitted stats would still be useful for the human-controlled team(s) of any given user.

That's true... especially with the stats that gamers accumulate...

But to keep track of the situational stats very well what they need to implement is something like retrosheet database to keep track of all play by plays. Simpler way for them is to keep adding more splits for different situations, but the mileage is limited (and the save file will be bloated).

Are they pumped up to do such a thing like generating retrosheet database with a sports title with an annual release cycle? My wishful thinking says yes, but my realistic side says not a chance...

[treyraq]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bobhead

I have to agree with the OP here. This game is definitely on the short side with stats.

Quote: Originally Posted by spit_bubble

I made a suggestion in the wishlist forum to add a lineup card, one that would give you access to everything a manager would want/need. Hopefully they'll add it, or something like it, to next year's game. It sucks managing a game with a team you're not familiar with, because there's no real way to find out information about a guy you have on the bench... Or at least there is no real way to find out information all the time... Because the stats and/or attributes aren't always shown. They seemed to make an effort to remedy this problem compared to last year's version, but they need to go all out and give full access to stats and attributes whenever you want... So you can actually manage a game properly.

Quote: Originally Posted by DetroitStyle

Couldn't agree more with the OP. I'm not going to blather on but the point is, I hope next year they revamp the stats to the degree they revamped the graphics.

Quote: Originally Posted by nomo17k

spit_bubble is right, the game would benefit from more streamlined info access within the gameplay. Right now it's scattered around and is quite messy. Stats is definitely one area the Show can and should improve significantly. If one major area that SCEA is thinking of improving for '12 is the franchise mode, it probably is also a good time to redesign the stats handling in the game. I don't think the current scheme of keeping track of a small number of split stats (vs LHP/RHP, w RISP, home/away, last months, etc.) will get the game too far in future... Something we could look forward to.

Yes.
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