MLB 13 The Show Video - New York Yankees vs. Toronto Blue Jays

[Nooooovak]

Quote: Originally Posted by Factzzz

No i mean record wise, as in Dickeys 39 Ws compared Felix 40 Ws

A pitcher's W-L record doesn't really tell you much about how a pitcher has performed. Barry Zito and Phil Hughes won more games than Felix this year. It really isn't an accurate representation of how valuable a guy is.

Note: I'm not taking any side in the Dickey-Felix debate that has broken out here. Just defending Sabermetrics haha

[yanksdaniel99]

Quote: Originally Posted by seanjeezy

Lol I was trying to avoid this one since it is the most obvious case of Felix's superiority... Dickey - 9.9 WAR Felix - 17.3 WAR Felix should be rated between 171 and 173 Want to just use last year's #'s? Dickey - 4.6 Felix - 6.1

Won pretty surprised at the difference there. Thought it woukd be a decent margin, but by almost double the value wow that's impressive.

[seanjeezy]

Quote: Originally Posted by yanksdaniel99

Won pretty surprised at the difference there. Thought it woukd be a decent margin, but by almost double the value wow that's impressive.

Low K/9 and high FIP and xFIP... Those are WAR busters for sure. Even so, its pretty remarkable that he had better traditional peripherals than Felix last year and still gets killed in WAR... I guess facing pitchers at least twice a game will spike your metrics lol

[Factzzz]

Quote: Originally Posted by yanksdaniel99

Won pretty surprised at the difference there. Thought it woukd be a decent margin, but by almost double the value wow that's impressive.

According to baseball reference Dickey's WAR the last 3 years has been 12.1 combined, whereas Felix's has been 14.8, so not that big a difference.

And going based on WAR, i guess Chase Headley was the 6th best position player last year, better than Miguel Cabrera.

Aside from all this WAR nonsense, the original argument was that Dickey's numbers and Felix's numbers over the past 3 years are comparable, which is very true.

[SoxFan01605]

Quote: Originally Posted by tabarnes19

The problem with numerical ratings is that people get hung up on the numbers instead of how the player performs. Sure there were ratings bars before(and I could view the ratings in the editor, but I couldn't access that info in game) but the Overall was so ambiguous that it made it difficult to determine who was rated higher. This allows for a more realistic experience as a GM or coach. Girardi doesn't look down the bench and say, "hmmm I need a pinch hitter rated 80 or higher and he needs at least a 75 contact vs left and 85 power." Like was stated before, as well, ratings are based off a formula based on position and a combination of ratings spit out of a formula to give you a number. So I'll have to choose between my 98 pitcher or 99 pitcher..

Well, to be fair, the ratings are a representation of what Girardi does see when he looks down the bench. He has scouting data, experience, etc to rely on in making those calls. Ratings are simply a common, albeit weak, substitute for that data. But you're 100% right about getting hung up on ratings.

On a related note, you're also right that bars at least make it a bit more ambiguous, but the complexity of such managerial decisions is still severely hampered. It would be a dream to one day have NO static ratings information for the user AT ALL. Make users weigh between historical, situational, and current statistical performance along with whatever the user comfort level is with a player (you don't know how often I've gone to a journeyman player in a big spot simply because I suck for some reason with an all-star in-game).

Even for CAPs, use comparative skill (i.e. "Power in-line with Hamilton" or "Steals like Bourn") with an MLB player or create a minor league statistical history (which would also fill another wishlist item for us stat fiends-player history) and have the ratings be generated by the game in the background.

That would probably scare away a ton of players though...lol...but it's fun to dream.

[D0GGERT D0G]

Wow, this. is. amazing

[bayman]

What is the point of all this complaining about Dickey vs. Hernandez? Russell has already said that all stock ratings are based off numbers and not SCEA's opinions. If they used Fan Graphs, Hernandez will have much better total ratings than Dickey, period. And either way Baseball Reference had Dickey with the higher WAR last year so please enlighten me on how Fan Graphs is the be all, end all, player evaluation tool?

[yanksdaniel99]

Quote: Originally Posted by Factzzz

According to baseball reference Dickey's WAR the last 3 years has been 12.1 combined, whereas Felix's has been 14.8, so not that big a difference. And going based on WAR, i guess Chase Headley was the 6th best position player last year, better than Miguel Cabrera. Aside from all this WAR nonsense, the original argument was that Dickey's numbers and Felix's numbers over the past 3 years are comparable, which is very true.

Got different WAR #'s when I looked at fangraphs.

Can't agree with your #'s comparison but I guess we can agree to disagree there. All subjective to whatever numbers you feel better show a pitcher's value. Both talented guys, Felix is just on another level on talent then Dickey.