Why does the AI swing early on 100mph fastballs?

[da_centa_fielda]

I'm really not understanding why this is even a thing in this game. I can throw a couple breaking pitches and change ups. Then follow it up with a high 90s or 100+mph fastball and they swing early.

Makes me thing the game has predetermined outcomes before each pitch is thrown.

[underdog13]

Why do I swing early on 100mph fastballs? Idk either.

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[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by da_centa_fielda

Makes me thing the game has predetermined outcomes before each pitch is thrown.

I don't know - I've seen what you've described...but then I've seen them respond "naturally" to timing differences.

I think it might be something like:

-You pick a pitch.

-AI has a certain timing accuracy based on ratings (K/9, Velocity rating, Contact, Vision), user input success (if applicable, for example, pulse or meter), pitcher release (may be determined by aforementioned user success depending on interface), and related sliders (User control, CPU contact, CPU timing)

-The AI is off by X and the game engine renders that and calculates the physics and contact chances.

-The result is rendered (swing and miss in this case).

The fact it might be off in "odd" ways is more the culprit. I don't think it's predetermined, per se. I think the "geared speed" might need more weight at least in determining the type of timing error likely (change vs 100 MPH heater - AI geared to/sitting on ~84 MPH (your pitcher's CH average velocity determined by his CH velocity rating), he should lean late with his errors).

Of course, I'm just spitballing, but it's how I envision what's happening.

[Blzer]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

I don't know - I've seen what you've described...but then I've seen them respond "naturally" to timing differences. I think it might be something like: -You pick a pitch. -AI has a certain timing accuracy based on ratings (K/9, Velocity rating, Contact, Vision), user input success (if applicable, for example, pulse or meter), pitcher release (may be determined by aforementioned user success depending on interface), and related sliders (User control, CPU contact, CPU timing) -The AI is off by X and the game engine renders that and calculates the physics and contact chances. -The result is rendered (swing and miss in this case). The fact it might be off in "odd" ways is more the culprit. I don't think it's predetermined, per se. I think the "geared speed" might need more weight at least in determining the type of timing error likely (change vs 100 MPH heater - AI geared to/sitting on ~84 MPH (your pitcher's CH average velocity determined by his CH velocity rating), he should lean late with his errors). Of course, I'm just spitballing, but it's how I envision what's happening.

Kidding, that's probably how it works out. It is artificial intelligence, after all. When I was programming, I always found it harder to dumb down an AI rather than smarten them. It was about how far they could see in scope really, and how much randomness kicks in versus weighed probabilities.

As you stated, there are calculations in play and the game may not necessarily account for the logic of the occurrence as much as it does the probability of the outcome. Probably not the easiest thing to program, at least not without users cheesing the game by possibly exploiting a weakness... but I too sometimes question how on earth it is the computer can counter what I sometimes deem to be the greatest pitch sequence, or something or another. Same with them throwing pitch-outs when I attempt to steal bases. It's like we have one brain!

[Caulfield]

Quote: Originally Posted by da_centa_fielda

Makes me thing the game has predetermined outcomes before each pitch is thrown.

If this is indeed how the A.I. operates, how should it proceed?
I'm a bad example to cite, because I am Mendoza at hitting,
but I swing early at heat all the time (& late at curves & changeups too).

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Blzer

Kidding, that's probably how it works out. It is artificial intelligence, after all. When I was programming, I always found it harder to dumb down an AI rather than smarten them. It was about how far they could see in scope really, and how much randomness kicks in versus weighed probabilities. As you stated, there are calculations in play and the game may not necessarily account for the logic of the occurrence as much as it does the probability of the outcome. Probably not the easiest thing to program, at least not without users cheesing the game by possibly exploiting a weakness... but I too sometimes question how on earth it is the computer can counter what I sometimes deem to be the greatest pitch sequence, or something or another. Same with them throwing pitch-outs when I attempt to steal bases. It's like we have one brain!

That clip though.

Stealing is an interesting one, considering it feels more like a mini-game though sometimes an intense one, especially if you're trying to move an important runner along.

Little tip offs that the CPU pitcher might be up to something (I'll step out of the box). Or when they will call for pitch outs (if I fear pitch outs, I'll wait until 2 balls or yolo it on 2 strikes, hoping the pitcher is more about getting me to chase in the dirt and not a "kinda pitchout" miss).

Worst one for me is sudden great pickoff move, especially since I use auto baserunning (boy do I wish they would have left manual steals in even with auto baserunning...or have a toggle for that). Extra points if it's not a pitcher with the "Pickoff Artist" trait. Next is the pitch out you describe...though I think part of THAT is also pattern recognition. I always try to vary counts I call for steals on for that reason, especially early in the PA.

Sadly, we can never rule out input reading, especially in a console video game. I think it would be more applicable for the steal cat-and-mouse than for the batter-pitcher confrontation. CPU doesn't know if you'll swing or what you're looking for (tries to guess based on your pattern). It could input read your pitch selection...but then it wouldn't swing early at fastballs.

[da_centa_fielda]

Quote: Originally Posted by Caulfield

If this is indeed how the A.I. operates, how should it proceed? I'm a bad example to cite, because I am Mendoza at hitting, but I swing early at heat all the time (& late at curves & changeups too).

I do too some times. But I attribute that to it just being difficult to read pitches on a screen and press a button to initiate a swing.

In all my years of actually playing the sport, not once have I swung early at a fastball. Especially if I knew the guy had a good breaking pitch that I had to respect.

I think it's near impossible to see 2-3 pitches in the low 80s then get a fastball in the high 90s and swing early.

Even when guys are throwing nothing but heat, batters are still late.

[knich]

I agree this is an issue SDS should address but don't agree with pre-determined outcomes theory.