Technical advising

[Boilerbuzz]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rashidi

2K is literally the ONLY sports video game with a former professional player working in gameplay development. http://www.foxsportspulse.com/team_i...59868-15173944 Your judgement on this subject is considerably uninformed.

Actually, that's not true. Madden has a former NFL lineman on the gameplay team. But they don't really listen to him enough, but that's besides the point.

But you're on point. And the assertion that those dudes don't know basketball is total crap. So because you're not physically blessed enough to reach the pro level means you don't know hoops? Wow.

Quote: Originally Posted by 24ct

This is actually the post which states he joined and as you can see it's in August 2014 and NBA 2k15 came out in October 2014 so yeah he had so much input to do with NBA 2K15. Leftos said he helped him a lot true but let's all be honest. The game plays just like past 2Ks. Nothing has really changed because he wasn't there long enough. And another note, he's not a technical advisor like the guy is saying. What he means is people who actually play and look for problems with the actual basketball mechanics. If the gameplay designer/ai guys don't play basketball professionally they're just programmers and nothing against them but programming a game and playing the game are 2 different things. I've actually made video games myself so I know this. But yeah, I'm so uninformed...

First, that's when it was announced. But there were rumors that he was there long before the announcement. I don't see how playing like its previous versions is bad. That's good. The series isn't perfect, but it is one of the best. The day it stops "playing like 2K" is a day the thing will fall apart. As far as "technical advisor", your statement makes no sense. What do you think are parts of the role of the designer? Why do you think OG got hired? Why do you think DaCzar is working with them. In other words, yes, they have at least 2 that we know of that have played at a high level and they both know their ****. You guys are making it sound like the only people that should be making a game are ex-NBA players. HA!!! Good luck with finding one that can do what they do.

[24ct]

Quote: Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz

Actually, that's not true. Madden has a former NFL lineman on the gameplay team. But they don't really listen to him enough, but that's besides the point. But you're on point. And the assertion that those dudes don't know basketball is total crap. So because you're not physically blessed enough to reach the pro level means you don't know hoops? Wow. First, that's when it was announced. But there were rumors that he was there long before the announcement. I don't see how playing like its previous versions is bad. That's good. The series isn't perfect, but it is one of the best. The day it stops "playing like 2K" is a day the thing will fall apart. As far as "technical advisor", your statement makes no sense. What do you think are parts of the role of the designer? Why do you think OG got hired? Why do you think DaCzar is working with them. In other words, yes, they have at least 2 that we know of that have played at a high level and they both know their ****. You guys are making it sound like the only people that should be making a game are ex-NBA players. HA!!! Good luck with finding one that can do what they do.

Nah I'm not saying that. I said what I meant, and it's that a game programmer is not the same as a technical advisor. Czar's job is not a technical advisor. NBA 2Ks technical advisors actually SHOULD be Ex NBA and current NBA players by definition...

Quote:

From Wikipedia (Or whatever source you use to define things) " For example a construction company might hire a technical expert in fluid dynamics to advise them if seeking to move a small water course" "Movie or television directors, will often hire a technical advisor to ensure that a complicated area is portrayed accurately in the production. For example, a director for a show involving combat aviation might hire one or more current or former combat pilots to serve as technical advisors."

That's not what Czar's job description is. It says what he does on 2k. He's the offensive system's gameplay producer. If he was a technical advisor it would say so. Like, I undestand what you're getting at which I think is all guys make suggestions as to what should be in a basketball game, but the bottom line, a technical advisor is a SPECIALIST (as in that's what he does or did for a living) in the field they're advising.

Just like it states. A technical advisor for a basketball game would be a guy who ONLY plays basketball, not programs games or makes them. He plays professional ball. I'm sure they have guys all over the studio who have PLAYED professionally helping with the mo-cap etc, but a mo-cap guy isn't a technical advisor. An advisor would come in and say "Yeah basketball players don't do that" "Big guys dribble different then guards" "Players don't dunk like that" "The rim doesn't make that sound" Etc...

Just like it says a movie director is the director. A gameplay producer is a producer. Those are not the same jobs my guy...I don't understand what you mean by good luck finding one that can do that...

Do what exactly? An advisor gives ADVICE. Like when you go see a financial advisor, they give you advice on how to manage your money. They may be proficient in math, but they aren't math teachers or bankers. A programmer, programs. A producer, produces...They have distinct descriptions. OG wasn't brought in as a tech advisor so YOUR statement doesn't make sense.

And like I said OG said himself he wasn't there long enough to change what was already established. Beluba & Leftos also alluded to this.

[Boilerbuzz]

Quote: Originally Posted by 24ct

Nah I'm not saying that. I said what I meant, and it's that a game programmer is not the same as a technical advisor. Czar's job is not a technical advisor. NBA 2Ks technical advisors actually SHOULD be Ex NBA and current NBA players by definition... That's not what Czar's job description is. It says what he does on 2k. He's the offensive system's gameplay producer. If he was a technical advisor it would say so. Like, I undestand what you're getting at which I think is all guys make suggestions as to what should be in a basketball game, but the bottom line, a technical advisor is a SPECIALIST (as in that's what he does or did for a living) in the field they're advising. Just like it states. A technical advisor for a basketball game would be a guy who ONLY plays basketball, not programs games or makes them. He plays professional ball. I'm sure they have guys all over the studio who have PLAYED professionally helping with the mo-cap etc, but a mo-cap guy isn't a technical advisor. An advisor would come in and say "Yeah basketball players don't do that" "Big guys dribble different then guards" "Players don't dunk like that" "The rim doesn't make that sound" Etc... Just like it says a movie director is the director. A gameplay producer is a producer. Those are not the same jobs my guy...I don't understand what you mean by good luck finding one that can do that... Do what exactly? An advisor gives ADVICE. Like when you go see a financial advisor, they give you advice on how to manage your money. They may be proficient in math, but they aren't math teachers or bankers. A programmer, programs. A producer, produces...They have distinct descriptions. OG wasn't brought in as a tech advisor so YOUR statement doesn't make sense. And like I said OG said himself he wasn't there long enough to change what was already established. Beluba & Leftos also alluded to this.

First, you use a term that is rarely used in the games industry. So, you'll have a hard time finding someone with that specific title. But why even argue argue over the name of a title. What is important is how and where they get consultation on aspects of the sport. The way VC works, they have ALWAYS talked directly to players and coaches. There was a video floating around of a news segment that features the NFL 2K team talking to guys like Randy Moss, for example. Or was it college hoops taking to Oden and Conley? So, I'm pretty sure they have ALWAYS had advisors for the game. How could they not? I'm sure the Madden team has a flood of players "advising" them like Marshall Faulk and John Madden - lot of good it does them. Anyway, outside of that, it'd be silly to have someone just sitting around only to ask basketball questions. So, yeah, OG is a producer. How that prevents him from doing what you're saying, advising, eludes me.

[2_headedmonster]

I get what the guy is saying and 2k would do well to have a dedicated advisor to keep things in the realm of reality instead of one foot in and one foot out of the realistic door.

As it stands, the on-ball defense, pick and roll rotations, shot timing and help defense are all unrealistic. Dont get me wrong 2k15 is a great game and some of those aspects mentioned work in a video-gamey way. But are not realistic and a person dedicated to reflecting realism may change that.

[Boilerbuzz]

Quote: Originally Posted by 2_headedmonster

I get what the guy is saying and 2k would do well to have a dedicated advisor to keep things in the realm of reality instead of one foot in and one foot out of the realistic door. As it stands, the on-ball defense, pick and roll rotations, shot timing and help defense are all unrealistic. Dont get me wrong 2k15 is a great game and some of those aspects mentioned work in a video-gamey way. But are not realistic and a person dedicated to reflecting realism may change that.

And as I said, it's presumptuous for anyone to assume they don't because they feel some parts of the game are unrealistic. Three things:

1. I think people get carried away with "realism". They see a handful of things that are unexpected or unrealistic, and they generalize the whole thing. Are all those aspects of the game 100% realistic? I don't think so. But hell, 85% of that stuff is pretty damned close.

2. If that other 15% is unrealistic, what makes you think it would be easy to get rid of it? And who's to say that 15% is suitable for a video game? There is SO much of the real game missing and unrealistic because of God-view, lack of tactile feedback, no fear of consequences, and basic human instinct. So what makes you think having a completely 100% realistic game works at all? Again, things can be better, but you'd be a fool to think they wouldn't agree.

3. There so much wrong with the assumption that a) this dedicated person would add anything to the current knowledge base already there, b) even if there were such a person, that executing all of that persons input is possible, and c) that person or persons isn't already there.

It's so easy to say, "all they need is some guy like me and the game would be better". But nevermind the fact that we are expecting a glorified calculator to be as smart as 10 human brains.

[City_foxx]

Quote: Originally Posted by Rashidi

2K is literally the ONLY sports video game with a former professional player working in gameplay development. http://www.foxsportspulse.com/team_i...59868-15173944 Your judgement on this subject is considerably uninformed.

Well i guess that explains the ai's pyscic like ability to steal passes! He just replicating his real life experience!

[2_headedmonster]

Quote: Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz

And as I said, it's presumptuous for anyone to assume they don't because they feel some parts of the game are unrealistic. Three things: 1. I think people get carried away with "realism". They see a handful of things that are unexpected or unrealistic, and they generalize the whole thing. Are all those aspects of the game 100% realistic? I don't think so. But hell, 85% of that stuff is pretty damned close. 2. If that other 15% is unrealistic, what makes you think it would be easy to get rid of it? And who's to say that 15% is suitable for a video game? There is SO much of the real game missing and unrealistic because of God-view, lack of tactile feedback, no fear of consequences, and basic human instinct. So what makes you think having a completely 100% realistic game works at all? Again, things can be better, but you'd be a fool to think they wouldn't agree. 3. There so much wrong with the assumption that a) this dedicated person would add anything to the current knowledge base already there, b) even if there were such a person, that executing all of that persons input is possible, and c) that person or persons isn't already there. It's so easy to say, "all they need is some guy like me and the game would be better". But nevermind the fact that we are expecting a glorified calculator to be as smart as 10 human brains.

85% is an laughable estimation.

I preface this by saying i like the 2k series and 2k15 especially.

The game at its core is largely unrealistic. shot percentages, footplanting , rotations; basic basketball aspects are goofy with respect to its real life counterpart. I couldn't imagine it would take a computer with the processing power of ten brains to get at least one of those right. Hyperbole aside, it's not a matter of them not wanting to improve that in their game, it's the possibility that their in-house vision isn't the path to making the game as realistic as possible. Even if the aspiration is to do so.

When you look at the impact the addition of Da Czar ( essentially an average Joe. a knowledgeable basketball brain, but not quite an nba coach) provided the theory there may be a need for fresh eyes becomes much more plausible.

[Boilerbuzz]

Quote: Originally Posted by 2_headedmonster

When you look at the impact the addition of Da Czar ( essentially an average Joe. a knowledgeable basketball brain, but not quite an nba coach) provided the theory there may be a need for fresh eyes becomes much more plausible.

? Do you know anything about his background? From what I know, he's FAR from an average Joe. But, in the end, you have your opinion. Won't be changed in anyway regardless of the facts. It's been heard. So, we can just leave it at that.