Should 2k nerf steal success on posted up big men?

[Pokes404]

Quote: Originally Posted by howardphillips214

To housh's credit, the problem has already gotten away from us in this thread. He touched on it, but I've found i lose the ball the most when I'm CLEARLY trying to spin AWAY from the double. Most of the time I'll spin towards the baseline and the ball will just hit someone's leg and pop out. So dribblers can dribble through your body and sometimes the ball will pop out and morph right back to his hand, bit double the post and it just falls right out. The game needs to stop picking and choosing where and when the ball is tangible. If they're going to punish bigs, then the guards need the same. Plus, spinning AWAY from the double needs to be a real way to avoid the issue. Or, let me fade over the double consistently.

I've never noticed this, but I also tend to kick the ball out when the double comes, or back away from the goal as my initial move. I can't think of many instances where I tried to spin away from the double. I'll have to try that some and see if I notice the ball being knocked loose more often.

[ILLSmak]

Quote: Originally Posted by Vroman

I have 2 different post scorers and its not an issue at all this year. I think there should be a way to steal a ball otherwise post scoring becomes braindead easy way to score like deep range threes or standup posters.

yea that's why it's lame. Dudes can just turn and dunk on you, but as a post scorer you have the ball longer, so it's more live. I remember when I was younger playing ball, getting yelled at by older players for trying to dig in and swipe at a post player as the player i defended curled off them. It's true, it's really not a good basketball play, yet as soon as you get the ball in the post in 2k, everyone swarms around you mashing square. You get the ball off a rebound, same issue.



I said this before, and I think there should be a contact/engage animation when you dig if you want to actually pressure the ball. Makes it so you can pressure a defender but it's not always a steal and it's not like hot potato in there. I am good at passing, but it's cuz I know someone could take the ball from me at any time.


Another issue is the 'strength' of the side of your player. You get a back down animation if you back into someone, but in truth, your side while posting should also be strong. People shouldn't be able to just swipe through you from the side or disengage and walk around you to try for an easier steal.



I think it's hard to steal the ball in 'real life' from post players. They can all palm the ball really well, they are probably strong, they subtly turn their body, etc.


Think of how many times you see someone take the ball from LeBron while he's dribbling. He's a strong, talented dribbler who doesn't make too many mistakes, but he still gets ripped. Then think of how many times you have see him getting ripped in the post. Then think of some pretty mediocre dribblers who are post players, they don't get ripped. It's generally a bad play to swarm the post; playmakers can dribble back and forth in your face, but if you are posted up, you have to worry about people flying through with lunge steals and knocking the ball loose.



Stealing from high str post scorer primary players should be either blind side or should go forced pick up into double or strip.



-Smak

[Nza]

Quote: Originally Posted by jeebs9

A few tips before looking to change the rate of steals here. First off I thought the same thing early in the cycle. But 2k has a few tools for double teams on the offense side. 2 of the biggest tips most users don't know about is pump faking during a double team to give you more time to find a outlet. Second tip is using the pick up dribble. You can do that by flicking the right stick at the rim. Your player will pick up his dribble. The third which is something I use a lot now. I dribble away from the double team. As long as the ball is away from the defense. You can keep your dribble alive.

I'm too scared to pump in close proximity TBH, it seems it triggers the strip block animation far too often for my liking.

Ultimately this is a realism issue in 2K online. The only time you'd do this in a real game is if the poster is dominant (i.e. the same old reason to double anyone), and even then it's probably not a great idea. The reason everyone does it in 2K is because most of the time it will result in a steal or favorable defensive play. There needs to be a higher risk in doubling a poster.

Another problem is it is almost always a bad idea to post up if you're not at least a secondary post scorer. This is confusing to me because there are builds without post scoring that are basically the same rated in the post (at least compared to a secondary post scorer), they just don't have the same level of badges - but none of the badges relate to controlling the ball in the post specifically. This is possibly more of a commentary on ratings vs badges.

[howardphillips214]

Imo, doubles are just far too effective, period.

Even on the wings there are teams who get down and immediately double the ball every play, and be successful. This is messed up because i can swing the ball to the weak side even and they can recover. The ball is supposed to move faster than the defense, that's what motion offense is about.

We typically play 4-1 anyways, so them trying this tactic seldom works out.

But the fact remains that the elbow is death. Which is crazy since a LOT of teams play out of the high post. Dirk in his prime was unstoppable at 17 feet. It's a shame that my first big didn't even play half the way i wanted. You take my high post from that build, hell even 12 feet is too inconsistent with the turn around.

I really think if the post is going to make a come back the elbows need to be a serious threat. Then we can start seeing down screens to pick and pop from mid or maybe when they throw doubles i can spin through or away.

[Housh123]

I think a stronger championship DNA badge or a protect ball button is all i need to fight the ball swarming. Iv picked post scorer for like 3 years now and it’s so tiring having to pass so quickly every time you touch it. You can only imagine how bad it gets after you score a few buckets on somebody’s trash center in the first. I usually get to do my first move free of a double and i usually always get a bucket then after they see that I’m actually a good post scorer it becomes a wrap for the rest of the game lol

The best teams Iv ever played will literally double WHILE THE BALL IS IN THE AIR COMING TO ME. Spinning out of a double or pump faking at that point doesn’t work. That’s when i need a protect button so i can find that guys man. Because In that situation i know I’m not putting the ball on the floor.

Now I’m not saying double teams should be discouraged. If I’m playing with a pure slasher i should get doubled. No complaints about that. But losing the ball to ball swarming is just trash because that crap don’t work on pure sharps at the 3 so why does it work on post players? Nobody is doubling pure sharps from limitless range and if it was as easy a steal as doubling the post is i bet more ppl would trap 3pt shooters.


In real life if I’m 7’ 3” and 2 dudes doubling me are 6’ 8” how does that truely affect me if i don’t put the ball on the floor? In 2k it’s just too easy to get those steals and that has to change.




You shouldn’t have to be in the top 5% of passing post scorers in all of 2k to not lose the ball to a double team. A kid should be able to make a pure post and have the tools to combat ball swarming off the bat.

Like sometimes i just wanna hoop man. After some days playing my pure post i feel like i just did enough thinking to pass a damn final exam




If you double it should impact the contest you get when running back to your man. Or if your man drives and your not in position yet there should be a new animation where you blow by your man so doubling off slashers becomes highly discouraged as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[ItchyNscratchy]

If you are getting the ball stolen while posting up, you are taking too long to post up or dont have the IQ to see the double coming and pass it to the open man. My pure Glasscleaner can post up well and dropstep and i never have a problem with people stealing. I usually just do 2 or 3 dribbles posting up and then attack. If you are taking more then 3 dribbles, you are not a efficient post scorer. Sometimes i see the double or even triple team coming and i pass it out right away.

[howardphillips214]

Quote: Originally Posted by ItchyNscratchy

If you are getting the ball stolen while posting up, you are taking too long to post up or dont have the IQ to see the double coming and pass it to the open man. My pure Glasscleaner can post up well and dropstep and i never have a problem with people stealing. I usually just do 2 or 3 dribbles posting up and then attack. If you are taking more then 3 dribbles, you are not a efficient post scorer. Sometimes i see the double or even triple team coming and i pass it out right away.

Glass cleaners can catch and finish if you're dead under the basket, but try and catch the ball on the block.

That's what we're talking about.

[ILLSmak]

I'd love to get 3 dribbles.

I finally decided to upgrade my post scorer. I've run post scorer every year, too... I just chose post scoring shot creator this year because attribute/badge wise, it seems like literally the strongest weapon in the game as a big. I somewhat regret being 6'11 (but I had a reason); I wanted to play PF anyway.

Assuming I get touches, I can get 5+ assists in the half court every game, which to me is a lot. A lot of bigs get a ton of assists off of outlets. It's the constant anxiety of the double that's unrealistic.

Even tho I said it once, I want to say it again in case the devs are reading: If stealing/doubling in the post often pulled you into a forced pick up/raised animation (assuming you were holding post up) on high rated post scorers, it would still be effective, it would make people commit to a double.

Playmaker is meant to drive and kick, finisher is meant to catch under the basket, slasher is meant to drive, shot creator is meant to shoot midrange, and sharp is meant to force switches on picks, stretch D... all of these things work MOSTLY to drastically change the D when played right. How does the post scorer change the D? The 'post' area is already crowded and there's nothing lost by just doing a few swipes, you can probably still get out to your guy, and you can swipe while you are running thru.

I still think I can do work w/ my dude, because he can score well in every way except dunking and 3s, but with 91 post and HOF post badges, you'd think that I'd want to spend most of my time posting up, where as I find it more effective to be midrange for space.

Also: BRING BACK POST PLAYMAKER BADGE.

-Smak