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Understanding slider coefficients

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Old 10-29-2012, 04:55 PM   #1
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Post Understanding slider coefficients

This is for all slider makers, roster makers and for general 2k knowledge.

- Slider effects show in-game (substitution menu) during gameplay.

How to check:
Start game, right after tip pause, go into substitution menu, note ratings, go to sliders, change an attribute slider, go back to game, let run 1-2 seconds, pause again, go to subs again, note change in rating.

Now with this 'new' knowledge we can do mass edits to the roster through slider attribute edits instead of going through all of the players and editing individually.

So far, after some initial testing, each slider has its own coefficient variable. Meaning that each slider changes said rating different than all other sliders.

For example; Shannon Browns 2k default dunk rating is 89, with the dunk attribute slider at 50, in game his rating is an obvious 89.

But once you change the dunk attribute slider in any direction and go into the sub menu, you will see that the rating changes. 2k shows this with red and green arrows.

Also take into account that fatigue from gameplay also changes ratings during game (real time). Same goes for the hot/cold streak system too.

I will post some observations further down on the slider coefficients.

BIG side note/tangent:
Difficulty level (Pro, All Star, SS, HoF) rating changes can be seen too in the sub menu as well. Meaning, it shows how much the CPU is boosted when you change off of Pro level.

Test: Scrimmage mode (no fatigue).

Pro level. Tip off, pause. Check ratings, no deviation (no arrows either direction). Go to controller, switch teams, check ratings, again no deviation. Note Jermaine Oneals standing dunk rating = 62.

Change difficulty to All Star, start scrimmage for 2 seconds. Pause game, switch off of Phoenix to OKC. Start game, pause. Switch back to PHO, check sub menu. Note JO standing dunk rating (green arrow now) = 67. Switch off PHO, change diff to Superstar. Start scrimmage for a sec. Pause, switch back to PHO. Check sub menu, JO standing dunk now a 70. HoF = 72.

So with that here are the results from that test.
Jermaine Oneal default 2k standing dunk rating = 62
Pro level (CPU) = 62
AS level (CPU) = 67
SS (CPU) = 70
HoF (CPU) = 72

So without a shadow of a doubt, the CPU is boosted on any other level than Pro.


With that, here are the boosts the CPU gets:

Standing Dunk rating
Pro = -2
AS = +5
SS = +7
HoF = +10

Block Rating (JO again) default rating 80, note this boost is only for CPU, HUM does not get it.
Pro = 78
AS = 85
SS = 88
HoF = 92

So we can see that indeed, it does make the game more difficult only because its increasing the CPU player ratings tremendously. Therefore making the game worse in my opinion, as it makes alot of the players have the same ratings, due to 99 being the top and 35 being the low.

Best bet is to keep the sliders within 40-60 range, occasionally going over/under.

Note: Ballhandling attribute effects (Ball handle rating and Ball Security rating, not OFF HAND DRIBBLING = BOOO 2k) So keep in mind that editing this slider will lower/raise handles and security but off hand dribbling will remain the same (cannot be changed with sliders).

Below is a list of attributes that the CPU alters with the difficulty changes:

Dunk
Ball Sec
Handles
Block
Steal
Both REBs
Both AWRs
Strength
Vert
SOD and SIT
Quickness
Hustle
Hands
On Ball Def
Standing Dunk


Okay some slider coefficient observations, Shannon Brown default dunk rating by 2k = 89.

At 50 dunk att slider he is a 89 in game sub menu.

99 57
10 7
1.428571429
98 56
9 6
1.5
96 55
6 5
1.4
95 54
6 4
1.5
93 53
4 3
1.333333333
92 52
3 2
1.5
90 51
1 1
1
89 50




88 49
1 1
1
86 48
3 2
1.5
85 47
4 3
1.333333333
83 46
6 4
1.5
82 45
7 5
1.4
80 44
9 6
1.5
79 43
10 7
1.428571429
77 42
12 8
1.5
76 41
13 9
1.444444444
74 40
15 10
1.5
73 39
16 11
1.454545455
71 38
18 12
1.5
70 37
19 13
1.461538462
68 36
21 14
1.5
67 35
22 15
1.466666667
65 34
24 16
1.5
64 33
25 17
1.470588235
62 32
27 18
1.5
61 31
28 19
1.473684211
59 30
30 20
1.5
58 29
31 21
1.476190476
53 26
36 24
1.5

Now the coefficient column shows how much each click at that slider # represents. As you can see, it looks like they tried to keep it around 1.5 per click.

Continuing...

Speed Att Slider - Shannon Brown default 2k rating = 90.


Rating Slider
rating change slider change
coeff
99 56
9 6
1.5
97 55
7 5
1.4
96 54
6 4
1.5
94 53
4 3
1.333333333
93 52
3 2
1.5
91 51
1 1
1
90 50
1 1

89 49
1 1
1
87 48
3 2
1.5
86 47
4 3
1.333333333
84 46
6 4
1.5
83 45
7 5
1.4
81 44
9 6
1.5
80 43
10 7
1.428571429
78 42
12 8
1.5
77 41
13 9
1.444444444
75 40
15 10
1.5
74 39
16 11
1.454545455


Again, roughly 1.5, continuing...


Defensive Awareness Att Slider, Jared Dudley default 2k rating 81.

Rating Slider
rating change slider change
coeff
99 62
18 12
1.5
97 61
16 11
1.454545455
96 60
15 10
1.5
94 59
13 9
1.444444444
93 58
12 8
1.5
91 57
10 7
1.428571429
90 56
9 6
1.5
88 55
7 5
1.4
87 54
6 4
1.5
85 53
4 3
1.333333333
84 52
3 2
1.5
82 51
1 1
1
81 50




80 49
1 1
1
78 48
3 2
1.5
77 47
4 3
1.333333333
75 46
6 4
1.5
74 45
7 5
1.4
72 44
9 6
1.5
71 43
10 7
1.428571429
69 42
12 8
1.5
68 41
13 9
1.444444444
66 40
15 10
1.5


Again 1.5 seems to be the target range.

Note: The CPU difficulty boost does get added on-top of slider adjustments.

Will continue to add to this thread with future observations. Thanks for reading.


NBA2K13 Rating changes per difficulty and how to adjust sliders accordingly

What's up everyone, here are the exact rating changes that 2K makes whenever you change the difficulty so that you can adjust the sliders to counter the CPU cheese and have a more balanced game. Sneaky 2K makes some changes you may not expect...

The number given after the attribute is how many slider points you must add to or subtract from the CPU to make the players balanced. IF there is a + before the number it means you add to the CPU slider, a - means you subtract from CPU slider.


BIG UPS TO SAVANTOPUS FOR WHATS BELOW!

PRO:
Def and Off Awareness +2
Hands +2
Ball Security +2
Def and Off Rebounds +2
All other Attributes +1 (except for steal, pass, stamina, durability, fatigue, consistency)


ALL STAR:
Def and Off Awareness -10
Hands -7
Ball Security -7 (tricky because you can only change this through the Ball Handling slider which changes 3 different attribues, Ball Security, Off-hand dribbling and Ball Handling... I use Roster Editor by LEFTOS to change this independently)
All other attributes -3 (except for stamina, durability, fatigue, consistency)
Offensive scoring sliders +4. Yes, add 4 to the CPU scoring sliders to get a shooting percentage balance. Inside scoring, close, mid, 3pt. Offensive scoring slider is subjective and based on my personal playing experience.

SUPERSTAR:
Def and Off Awareness -17
Hands -14
Ball Security -14 (tricky because you can only change this through the Ball Handling slider which changes 3 different attributes, Ball Security, Off-hand dribbling and Ball Handling... I use Roster Editor by LEFTOS to change this independently)
Steal -7
Def and Off Rebound -7
All other attributes -6 (except for stamina, durability, fatigue, consistency)
Offensive scoring sliders for Superstar seem like they are already balanced; need to subtract or add from USER or CPU, keep them the same as each other.

Hall of Fame
Def and Off Awareness -20
Hands -20
Ball Security -20 (tricky because you can only change this through the Ball Handling slider which changes 3 different attribues, Ball Security, Off-hand dribbling and Ball Handling... I use Roster Editor by LEFTOS to change this independently)
Steal -10
Def and Off Reb -10
Dunk ability -7
Speed -7
All other attributes -8 (except for stamina, durability, fatigue, consistency)
Offensive scoring sliders for Hall of Fame I do not know because I don't play on this difficulty, I play Superstar.

Cheers, Mates

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Last edited by JasonWilliams55; 04-01-2013 at 02:11 AM.
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:26 PM   #2
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Re: Understanding slider coefficients

Fascinating stuff, if there were 6 stars available I would give it to this thread. So since the CPU AI on you're DON'T get a boost, does playing on a difficulty (sliders unchanged), higher than Pro against another human, feel different to playing on Pro, or is it true that the shooting window is smaller as well as the windows for stealing, blocking etc.?
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:49 PM   #3
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Re: Understanding slider coefficients

Quote:
Originally Posted by Optik
Fascinating stuff, if there were 6 stars available I would give it to this thread. So since the CPU AI on you're DON'T get a boost, does playing on a difficulty (sliders unchanged), higher than Pro against another human, feel different to playing on Pro, or is it true that the shooting window is smaller as well as the windows for stealing, blocking etc.?
Not sure, if HUM vs HUM games if the CPU players get a boost, I guess I need to plug in two controllers and test. I will do this sometime today and see, will report back of course. (after some thinking, I'm gonna guess that there is no boost anywhere in head to head games on a difficulty level)

With the difficulty changes, the windows (shot, steal, block) definitely decrease for the user and should for both USERs in a head to head game. The main thing is that the CPU (offline) gets attribute boosts. Only way to negate that would be to lower the CPU attribute sliders to correspond with their boost from difficulty change.
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Old 10-29-2012, 05:52 PM   #4
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Re: Understanding slider coefficients

Update: After staring at the numbers for a bit longer now, I do notice that all of the sliders do seem to have a pattern of coefficients. Easiest way to put it is; for every 1 (+-) in direction, its gonna change the corresponding rating 1.5 points.
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Old 10-29-2012, 06:13 PM   #5
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Re: Understanding slider coefficients

This is all well and good but lets look at the simplicty of this(current roster im working has major grouping tweaks to equal or even out the numbers below into proper animation triggering)

ratings for player attributes start at 25-99 while slider ratings for both gameplay and coaching can be adjusted by 100.

There lies the issue of trying to make everything work together.

Ive figured it out though but its a ton of work
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Old 10-29-2012, 06:30 PM   #6
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Re: Understanding slider coefficients

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomba
This is all well and good but lets look at the simplicty of this (current roster im working has major grouping tweaks to equal or even out the numbers below into proper animation triggering) thats fine, just leave the corresponding attribute sliders at 50 and nothing will be done to the roster ratings.

ratings for player attributes start at 25-99 while slider ratings for both gameplay and coaching can be adjusted by 100. I don't get what your saying? But the slider changes the rating on a 1.5 point rating change per 1 click (roughly) in each direction. So putting a slider at 100, would equate out to a 75 point boost for every player in that attribute (with a ceiling of 99) so really by putting a slider at 100, you essentially make every player in the NBA the same (in that specific rating). Opposite for going to 0, it would decrease everyone by 75 points, bottoming out everyone at 25.

Coaching sliders don't mess with attributes, only tendencies.

There lies the issue of trying to make everything work together. Not really hard, once you understand how the engine works. Player ratings determine how each player plays, they are then grouped per team which brings in the coaching sliders that alters said players tendencies. Probably on that same 1.5 point scale, only logical that they would do it that way. And then gameplay sliders alter all of the players, while coaching only effect their teams players.

Ive figured it out though but its a ton of work. Yes it is a lot of work, but with figuring out the slider coefficients, it should help with mass edits (quick ones) to attributes as you wouldn't need to do them individually.
Replied in red. I have appreciated your work for years Tomba, keep it up.
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Last edited by JasonWilliams55; 10-29-2012 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 10-29-2012, 06:50 PM   #7
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Re: Understanding slider coefficients

This is nice, but who really has the time to do ALL this math and updates? I have a job, a wife who works 40 hours a week, 4 kids in school, and other responsibilities in life. I honestly don't know how some of you guys find the time for this stuff. I feel like I already put too much time into this.
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Old 10-29-2012, 06:58 PM   #8
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Re: Understanding slider coefficients

Quote:
Originally Posted by mkharsh33
This is nice, but who really has the time to do ALL this math and updates? I have a job, a wife who works 40 hours a week, 4 kids in school, and other responsibilities in life. I honestly don't know how some of you guys find the time for this stuff. I feel like I already put too much time into this.
I feel ya, I have a wife doing 40 and a 2yr old and a small farm to take care of.

But this really didn't take all that long. Maybe 5-6 hours total time between last night and this morning.


The main reason I did this, was that 2k finally gave us back the real time player ratings in the sub menu, last I remember it being in there was around 2k4 or so. But this go around it shows slider adjustments as well as the hot cold streak system. +2 across the board basically if your on fire (first play your on fire), cold though (drops that player way down, I've seen Gortat go from 70 dunk rating to 53 while under the cold symbol)

Timeouts will reset the players hot/cold streaks.

Also, watch the animations that play out during and after plays as they are clues into how the players are playing (within the hot/cold system).
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