Experiences playing against the Heat - please post impressions here

[neovsmatrix]

Quote: Originally Posted by justtxyank

I lost to the Heat in association 92-90 on all-star, default settings. Shaq had 13 rebounds but only 9 points. He was 3-3 from the field and then got some points on foul shots at the end of the game where I started fouling him. I hadn't thought about it until I read this thread so luckily I played the Heat right afterward. I use the Rockets and I run my offense through Yao so at least for me it works right. One thing I did notice, every game they say "he's such a good rebounder for an off guard" referring to yao.

How'd the Heat play the second time against you?

[justtxyank]

Quote: Originally Posted by neovsmatrix

How'd the Heat play the second time against you?

I haven't played them twice yet (don't know if I will get to). It was one of the early games in my association.


I played them once or twice in just head to head but I never took the time to notice what was going on in terms of post play. I do not seem to recall Shaq having a big game against me though. I know that Toine and Jason Williams jack up shots against me left and right.

[DocHolliday]

just played heat on all star with adjusted sliders, and shaq was a beast. he had like 13 points and 7 boards at half. Also got to the line alot. D-wade, on the other hand, did pratically nothing....

[neovsmatrix]

Quote: Originally Posted by Bobolini

Shaq is 34 and will be 35 before the season ends. His production has fallen each of the last 4 years. His 20.0 PPG and 9.2 RBPG were the lowest of his entire career. He only averaged 13.7 in the finals against Dallas last year. I think your expectations for Shaq are overly optimistic. Shaq is on the downside of his career and maybe it's reflected by the programmers of 2K?

You know if you check his ratings and tendencies in the edit player mode his potential is listed as 99???? I would think it would have to be 0 since he has already peaked. And yes, I do agree with you that his production should be down.

What I'm talking about however is how the Heat PLAY. If you watched the Heat in real life, you'd know when Shaq's on the court, they play pretty much off of him, including Wade. His minutes have progressively declined, and it's true he coasts most of the season by not being that active, and then tries to turn it on in the playoffs. But the ball still goes to him and if he is able to dominate there they continue feeding the ball to him. The Heat in this game don't do that. It's mostly Wade & co. that score, and Shaq's pretty much a passive bystander. It's odd, because I've checked the Heat team tendencies, and the look for post players and pound the ball inside sliders are already pretty high. They just don't do it though that much. And they certainly don't give the ball to Shaq much unless they have no other option.

[jsg]

maybe your playing good defense on Shaq and playing bad defense on everyone else

[Pared]

I don't see this Neo. I think you just tend to over-analyze the game.

2k7 actually has some variance to it. Shaq won't be dropping 20-30 on you all the time...

[neovsmatrix]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pared

I don't see this Neo. I think you just tend to over-analyze the game. 2k7 actually has some variance to it. Shaq won't be dropping 20-30 on you all the time...

I know the offense is somewhat randomized, but the problem is that there is a set approach to the offense of the Heat, more or less. The Heat will almost always give Shaq his touches. He may not opt to score, but he'll get the ball more often than not. Role players won't be the high scorers for the Heat because they're largely playing off of Shaq and Wade.

And the game doesn't do this.

I'm not overanalyzing it, others have chimed in pretty much saying the same thing. I know bizcanos and Illustrator definitely agree with me regarding this issue as a fix for this is being obsessed over in Bizcanos's slider thread.

I've also tried watching the AI play itself and I see the same thing. If the PF/C is a good jumpshooter, he's getting the majority of his points from jumpshots, and crashing the boards. There aren't that many plays called for them, and the frequency of them posting up and actually getting the ball in the post is low. This problem's with Duncan, and both O'Neals (Jermaine and Shaq). I noticed Gasol in one of my first Association games with the Knicks didn't get the ball nearly that much, Eddie Jones was the high scorer for the Grizzlies against the Knicks, on superstar, 12 minute quarters. Gasol didn't even score double digits nor did he ATTEMPT a shot more than 8 times. I brushed that off as simply one game, but I now see it for what it is: a problem, because this happens more often than not.

I can understand if the PF/C is not SCORING the ball, I can't understand them not GETTING the ball. And that's what's happening. The team doesn't feed the ball into the post that often at all.

If I find a fix for this, I'd gladly retract this, but I'm just telling it like it is. I really wanted to like this game, and I thought this game was finally going to exceed the Inside Drive series. It may still, but that's only possible if I find a fix for post players not getting the ball.

[edubbs]

Ok, I just finished a game against the Heat, 11min qtrs. default superstar is what I play on. I won for a change (I almost never beat the cpu on superstar) 114-98 with the Wizards. Gilbert had 41pts 8assist 5 steals 8 turnovers and Butler had 20pts.

Wade was in foul trouble the whole game and we took advantage of him being on the bench. Shaq stepped up though.

Shaq's stat line - 22pts 12rebs 2blks 4 fouls in 35min played. 10-19fg's
JWill had 22pts 11 assist 42min played
Wade had 15pts 6 assist 33 min played 5 fouls.

Shaq scored all of his points on post moves or feeds cutting to the basket from Jwill. He had a couple of putback attempts that he missed. I don't think Shaq's numbers would have been the same if Wade wasn't in foul trouble though.

I played this particular game to see the issues that Neo encountered. And I have played enough exhibition games to see his concerns and they can be legit in SOME of the games I have played.

Anyway, could the way the dominant post guy's play be better on a more consistent basis? Yes.....but in this particular game I couldn't be more satisfied by the way Shaq played.

VC just needs to get the guys that like to play in the post to seal their defender and get deeper post position. This way way they can initiate their post moves from closer to the basket. The animation for sealing the defender is in 2k7 but, it is rarely executed at the right time. I would like to see this animation instead of the one where the post player just raises his hand calling for the ball. Obviously, each team could be a little more aggressive in trying to get these guys touches also.

Ok back to the issues with the test......

To be honest, one of the first things I did when I started playing 2k7 was to test out how teams utilized the dominant big men. And I got a mixed bag after several test.

I got tired of testing and just continued playing random games. I have been having the best time playing this game ever since. There were times I noticed the same things that Neo has during those test but, just not to the extent that he has. And now I couldn't be enjoying a bball game more.

This morning I played Memphis and Gasol had 23pts 12rebs. and he scored in a variety of ways also. Although he did score on a few put backs and the "Pop and clear PF play" that the cpu likes to run. They won 108-87 or something like that....He had 18 at the half.

Something I forgot to mention, in the game I just played against the Heat. After about the 2nd qtr. I forgot all about looking for how Shaq was playing because, the game was so fun.

I mean some of the things in 2k7 like the AI and the animations are very distracting...In such a GOOD WAY, that I turned my attention on trying to win the game. Not til near the end of the game did I remember to document the way Shaq scored and how he was utilized.

At the time I was too busy enjoying the game....