Most difficult teams to turn around

[Skarecrow]

In your personal experience, which teams are the most difficult to turn into superbowl champions?

I've played probably 1/3 of the teams in the league, but only the following teams did I make it out to at least two years of a franchise (some of them multiple times though):
Steelers, Dolphins, Falcons, Bears, Panthers, Redskins,

The Steelers are generally pretty heavy on talent and are pretty easy to turn around. The thing is, even though the Dolphins, Falcons, Bears, and Panthers are all in the perennial bottom-10 list, and start off fairly low on keepable talent, none of them were difficult to turn around either. The key is that they all have enormous amounts of cap space, or they can if you drop all the players under pot 75 (which I routinely do) and staff from free agency and draft well.

I've only had problems with one team, and that's the redskins. I've tried them at least twice, maybe 3 times, before my current franchise, and I always quit for the same reasons:
1. they have virtually no useable talent.
2. what talent they have is generally old and busted.
3. they've apparently been giving out 5-year 40-million dollar contracts with a dartboard.

From a long-term keeper point of view, you've got Safety LaRon Landry and TE Chris Cooley (who really should be a #2 TE anyway), and that's it. Clinton Portis is old and busted. Jason Campbell screams "excellent backup QB, extremely lackluster #1 QB", and a few other people in the upper 80s or lower 90s but who are all 30+ years old.

Then there's the contracts. The Redskins are in the worst cap hell of any team I've ever played. I've got a DE who has a pot of 74 but has a 40 million dollar 5year contract. Hell I've got a whole team of that. I'm forced to keep these guys on the roster because firing just one of them puts me into negative cap numbers. It's going to be 2011 before I really start to get free of this, unless some of them decide to retire early (a possibility considering how old some of them are).

This is the best franchise I've had in awhile, because it's come down to not "who can I get to fix my problems" but "who can I afford to get to fix my problems". I didn't sign almost any of the players the redskins drafted in 2008 (sucks for virtual them, but I'd have cut them soon anyway, they all sucked). In 2009, I traded out of the #7 spot and the #39 spot to pick up 3 guys at the bottom of the first round (Ozzie Jones, Freddie Bates, and Doki Somanu), nobody in the second, nobody in the third, and then 7 guys in the 4th, 5th, 6th, and 7th. I really probably shouldn't have even traded up for Ozzie, but Portis will likely be out of the league within a year or so and the price was right.

Unable to get Noah Wyoming though, and the GA Southern Drew Brees QB in 2009 is actually worse than Jason Campbell... and there's no way I can afford to get Alex Hurst next year, so I may be starting Campbell for another year until I can get the enormous fatbody Tristan Riley in 2010.

It's the most challenge I've seen out of the game in awhile.

I've heard that the raiders are just as bad, but I've never had any interest in playing them.

[algoody421]

Ozzie and doki man, thats a hell of a draft, no need for anyone in the 2nd or 3rd at that point! I always get those two(or at least doki) on the jones path.
Ozzie on moves and doki on anything really(philosophy) anywhere in the front 7 from the beginning of his career and they're gold. Plus, portis can play as a moves back as well.

DO YOURSELF A FAVOR. DONT FIRE THE REDSKINS TRAINER(Gary Quarterman. HE'S THE BEST IN THE GAME. Sure he's only a 4 4 3 to start, but he can be 5 5 5 AND he has ambition! He can get through the special skills in 3 years MAX on the redskins at least. Then you get the rehab , then diagnosis, then the 2 staminas on regular skills.

But yeah, redskins is difficult, but even so, with a good path like english or jones, it wont take too long to turn them around, 2 or 3 years... I havent really had much trouble with turning anyone around within 2 years, some you gotta go 8-8 or less on the first year.

Ive come to the point where I pretty much CANT fill out the strategy, performance play call or chemsitry OR the special skills for my hc. I just build up development now and get special skills and all that for my assistants. then when you let them go they make other teams amazing.

Raiders are prolly the worst team in the game. Minus a good dc and dmc. secondary, they're fairly terrible.

[Skarecrow]

In my current franchise the Raiders have Run DMC and Joe Kain. it's pretty hard not to accidentally win a few games with those two, and the raiders actually were the first team to beat me (it's since happened two more times) in 2009. I'm not sure if they got hammermill or not. He seems to like to help out bottom tier teams in my franchises.

I haven't seen much direct action from Doki. I've got him at RE right now since I've got a 91pot at LE already. Perhaps I should switch? If you watch him during plays though, he opens holes for my LBs. Ozzie is very sporadic. I've had multiple games where he broke out huge *** runs, and games where he doesn't do much of anything. Really the one I've seen the most out of from my 1st round picks is Freddie Bates. Like Adam Schefter says during the draft, combine measurables be damned, that boy is a football player. He has this knack for being in the right place at the right time. he's the guy that's in position to bat down a pass. he's the guy that's in position to take a runner down in the back field. he's the guy that's right up in the QB's face for a sack or a hurry. he doesn't always follow through, but he's THERE, and that's more than I can say for most of my players.

I'm running 26mil in available cap space next year, and that's with me not re-signing most of my street free agents and round 7 picks (one of which I really DID want to sign, the WR from UNC, but he won't come back to negotiations for some reason).

I kept trainer Gary Quartermane, the defensive coordinator, the RBC, the DBC, and the special teams coach. that's about it. the RBC and DBC were both among the best I've ever seen out-of-the-box, and the DC and STC were "good enough".

[algoody421]

Dokis best position is le against the rt. Not because rt are weaker or anything. Just because he's 6'8 and most qbs are right handed. He jumps, no throw to right side...

My biggest question would be how did you build your hc?

I know as a developer, I have gotten MUCH BETTER production and performance out of positions where I have gotten AT LEAST to 3 in EVERYTHING, if not 4. But lower than that on 2 or more coaches, and you wont have consistent performance. Also, for all your rookies, learning is a big deal. If you cant teach your players the plays, they cant perform as well as they should. I would look into building learning development at rb dl and lb to at least 3 so they can zoom through mastering the playbook, then they really start to shine.

I dont do special skills anymore, special skills are for my staff. Thats only AFTER I BUILD THEM TO GREAT in all 3 developments(aka 4). I dont make my coaches excellent at anything, they do that for themselves on other teams. But this is so when they leave they can add difficulty to my careers.

My HC coach is a 4 at db & wr, 3 at lb& te, 2 at p & k in all three development types and my wrs and dbs play well(consistently good/great) as long as I have talent there. I put strategy and performance to 3 this career at the beginning, and havent bought anything else other than development since.

But you need 2 great coaches at a position to make for really good years. My oc and rbc are rb specialists with at least 4 if not 5 in every development. I have lt, got 1750 yards this season, then he took over the playoffs, prolly 600 yards in 3 games almost. But I had the staff and the line and the talent at rb... Same with my dbs killing offenses all year, even without the knockdowns at 75 I still would have had a 10 int season and 3-4 tds with cromatie alone and prolly another 20 ints from the rest of the team.

Coaching wins championships in this game, talent just plays the games, like pawns....

[Aurabolt127]

I haven't found it too hard to turn a team around in a year or two - but you can make it more challenging if you don't use customized playbooks, don't draft the "Future 50" or the obvious sleepers, go off your GM suggestions [I only override a GM pick in my first year if the pick makes ZERO sense. I have drafted Felix Jones in round one and had the GM tell me to draft James Stewart in round 2 - but if you reject it, go off your board and "roadmap".

Get out of your comfort zone w/formations and personnel. If you've never run a certain playbook - try it. If your last 5 franchises end up with the same guys every year, what's the point?

I've been enjoying taking middle of the pack teams, like say, the Eagles or Broncos and getting rid of their star players to hit the cap a bit and make a bigger challenge. There is precedent for it - remember that the Eagles got rid of McNabb and Westbrook the same year, (actually in 2000 they got rid of their 2 starting receivers Charles Johnson and Torrence Small), Cutler and Marshall were both gone within a season of each other, the Browns lost Jamal Lewis and Braylon Edwards at the same time, etc. etc. It definitely adds challenge to move a star player on, take the hit and alter the team's philosophy; even more so if you don't draft all the sleepers and future 50 guys. Like maybe you want to take a west coast team and become a vertical passing team, or a spread option team.

I also suggest taking a look at the team's history a little when you take it over. Specifically the 2007 draft. You inherit your team's GM, therefore you inherit his picks. Tell yourself you aren't going to cut their top couple picks of that draft and you'll work on developing them for at least 2008 or 2009. A GM generally won't cut a guy he just drafted in the first or second round the very next year. Great example is Drew Stanton. Kitna is old, Stanton was drafted with a high 2nd round pick to develop into "the guy". A new Lions coach would be brought in by the GM with that in mind. (think Peyton Manning and Osweiler now) I'd start a franchise and roll with Kitna with Stanton at the 2. At the end of 08, if he really isn't working out (or if you're really trying to go with a different philosophy than what Drew's good at), maybe then the GM and QB corps all go - a GM knows he is sometimes tied to his draft picks, and if someone is "his guy", and that guy falls apart - you've got a logical path to replace the GM.

Outside the game, we know that certain players aren't very good, no matter where they were drafted, but at that moment the GM and team thought they were; 1st round guys like Jarvis Moss, Ted Ginn, Justin Harrell come to mind.

Now, at the end of 2008, if you ditch the GM, you might not be "married" to his picks, but again, don't just simply cut the GM because a better one is out there - unless he's a complete turd work on developing him - he can't exaclty "fail" at his job since you control it. Let your coaches move on when they get really good; let them take other jobs and help other teams get better. I give my GM a ton of control, because face it, in real life a rookie head coach isn't ever given the GM title too -they have to earn that like Holmgren and Reid did, for example.

The game is only as challenging and realistic as you make it - so challenge yourself. Too many times on here I read about a team that wipes its rosters, maxes its coaches and customizes a perfect playbook, takes every sleeper in each draft and sims every game - then says the game is too easy.

Maybe my next challenge is to take the Redskins and use the 3-2-6! (only used each once before, so who knows?) LOL!!!

Good luck and have fun!! One of the best games ever - still!

[Skarecrow]

After all my complaining about how difficult the redskins were, we actually won the superbowl in 2009. It was NOT easy. the team has any number of flaws, but everybody seemed to come together when it mattered. the division championship came down to week 17 vs the eagles, and we won by running out the clock in the 4th.

the nfc championship we won by... running out the clock in the 4th.

the superbowl, vs the pats, we were getting shelacked the whole first half, then we had an amazing 3rd quarter, and barely held on for the win in the 4th.

I'm frankly amazed, this is the worst team I've ever won a SB with. Whenever this sort of thing happens (I win an early SB), i'm never able to repeat, so that's my goal. considering that we got a bunch of good draft picks in the 2010 draft, but lost a bunch of our best players (NFL MVP Jason Campbell, Clinton Portis, a couple 30-year-old plus guys with 90 OVLs retired or moved on in free agency, etc), it's hardly a given that we're even going to win the division again.

[JrueToTheGame]

I actually always tried (and failed) with the Redskins, so I guess I would have to say them. Man would RGIII help lol

[algoody421]

Redskins arent that hard, they have the best trainer in the game from the start. They have great talent, they just need a better playbook. They have a great staff, you just have to use the team the way the staff and roster are built. They're a running team, so you have to commit to the run game(at least 25 carries for your starter). But within 2 years, I can win a sb with anyone.

The real difficulty comes when your star qb decides he deserves a 30 million dollar bonus ona 50 million dollar 6 year contract. So you say **** that, give me some draft picks someone. Now you're starting a rookie or 2nd year player who isnt in sync with the playbook or players.

I went 15-1 and won the sb(granted I believe 75 knockdown slider really ruined some of those games for the cpu), Now Im 7-6, getting my *** HANDED TO ME, after sodomy, by coaches like bellichick and holmgren. Like literally losing by 20+ points, giving up 50 some games. Its just been brutal. I also got rid of my entire dline though, put in a new fs on defense and promoted some oline(traded some). So I expected a step back.

But like aura said, you have to cut loose amazing coaches or promote them. You have to give yourself limits. I like being the gm myself so I wont do that, but I dont have to on my sliders. They're difficult enough to where you NEED talent or you will not win. IM 7-6 FOR GOD SAKE. That doesnt happen usually... and I have a STUD staff, like most of them over 80 with most special skills...

Year 3 dungy, holmgren, and bellichick (2nd year of hammermill), they're disgusting.