I'm utterly disappointed that nobody ever tried to make a "Winning Eleven" football

[NYG 5]

all we got was a half assed probe by 2k, who compounded their failure by wasting too many resources on licensed players, and a floundering attempt at backbreaker, who had a pretty good game that needed just a slight patch, but was then utterly broken post patch.

almost 10 years, and nobody has attempted to have a modern quality football game with a sustainable franchise and AI, or online play with teams that can be totally composed with CAPs that actually cost to invest in. hell, APF just needed one patch to fix a few money plays and balancing issues.

but nope. 10 years of nobody trying to make the football version of MLB the Show with no name players. nobody wanted throw together a few algorithms to dictate team needs, value, progression, cap management, and random draft classes. everyone deduced that the game wouldn't sell even if you actually put something into it. greatest sports genre ever, just given up on. hell, even blitz was successful

[JayBee74]

Quote: Originally Posted by NYG 5

all we got was a half assed probe by 2k,

2K is pretty good at half *** probes though.

[CM Hooe]

A few thoughts:

- APF didn't have a franchise mode whatsoever, as such it doesn't fit the criteria you desire either.
- There's strong evidence supporting the idea that unlicensed sports games do not make money on their own. Heck, APF had 200+ legend players in it and it wasn't successful. Blitz was only moderately successful because of the history of that line of video games. Financially, Backbreaker (the best example, a new series with no licensing) was a failure on consoles; however, the iOS kick return minigame did far better, if I recall correctly. I have no idea how the XBLA Tecmo Bowl Throwback game did, but again, that has name recognition and a nostalgia factor.
- Rarely is it the case that people want to make video games and not get paid for making said video games.

[NYG 5]

the problem with all pro is that they inflated the cost of making their game when they shelled out money to legends that they didn't need. had they instead focused on a way to create balanced caps and start off with good online competition and leaderboards, it would have been more successful and profitable as well.

backbreaker ****ed itself by shipping with braindead AI and no decent instant replay, as well as terrible online lag. the patch simultaneously improved and broke the game. made the players smarter and the passing game easier, but really shackled the euphoria engine and defeated the purpose of the game. also, it was an enormous undertaking for them.

so like i said, nobody has put forth an honest effort at making a sim game

[Stampede_94]

If 2K gave us more customization and lost the legends we could have had a successful football game. The game wasn't deep enough and the team concepts and stadiums were a train wreck.

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by Stampede_94

If 2K gave us more customization and lost the legends we could have had a successful football game. The game wasn't deep enough and the team concepts and stadiums were a train wreck.

I'm not sure that ditching the legends would have made the game more successful; if anything, it would detract from the minimal mainstream recognition the game received. Jerry Rice was heavily involved in the game's promotion prior to its release, for example.

Further, without the legends, portions of the design of the game would have to be revisited; the entire roster-generation portion of the team-building interface, for example. For all of APF's flaws, the manner by which the game forced you to pick strengths and weaknesses for your team based on an available pool of strong legend players really was one of its strongest points, IMO, and it directly and immediately separated the game from its competition. This mechanic also directly encouraged trying different combinations of players to find the most optimal combination of players for a variety of gameplay styles.

I do agree that a deeper game would have helped; some sort of multi-year and evolving franchise / career mode was desperately needed. The game lacked single-player longevity to this end.

[NYG 5]

Quote: Originally Posted by CM Hooe

I'm not sure that ditching the legends would have made the game more successful; if anything, it would detract from the minimal mainstream recognition the game received. Jerry Rice was heavily involved in the game's promotion prior to its release, for example. Further, without the legends, portions of the design of the game would have to be revisited; the entire roster-generation portion of the team-building interface, for example. For all of APF's flaws, the manner by which the game forced you to pick strengths and weaknesses for your team based on an available pool of strong legend players really was one of its strongest points, IMO, and it directly and immediately separated the game from its competition. This mechanic also directly encouraged trying different combinations of players to find the most optimal combination of players for a variety of gameplay styles. I do agree that a deeper game would have helped; some sort of multi-year and evolving franchise / career mode was desperately needed. The game lacked single-player longevity to this end.

until players realized the key to winning was stockpiling all the good skill players and overrated low tier guys because the line interaction and respect for ratings was terrible.

[CM Hooe]

Quote: Originally Posted by NYG 5

until players realized the key to winning was stockpiling all the good skill players and overrated low tier guys because the line interaction and respect for ratings was terrible.

Improper balancing doesn't necessarily equate to a poor design and doesn't invalidate what Visual Concepts was attempting to achieve with their team-building system. There's a fine distinction there which must be recognized.

Frankly, I thought that separating the strengths and weaknesses of each individual player was one of the things APF did most effectively, notwithstanding some imbalanced players such as pre-patch Earl Campbell. I had a lot of fun trying out different combinations of players while that game was still in my rotation.